** WON ** car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject

[Amethyst]

Re: car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject - please help!

If in doubt, go direct to the legislation http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ion/20/enacted and http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ion/22/enacted

You do need to show the goods are faulty (hence why you are rejecting) but the burden of proof to show that it wasn't faulty at the time of sale is on the seller. I think that might be the bit that is confusing.

( This 'man fist sized hole' did your garage give any opinion how it had got there or how long it had been there? )

[des8]

Re: car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject - please help!

have you looked under refund within first 30 days? its different i promise!!!

look up the short term right to reject:

The position under the CRA:

• Consumers will have a new, initial fixed period of 30 days from delivery within which to reject faulty goods and claim a full refund.
• The burden of proof will be on the consumer to prove that the goods are faulty.

Could you direct me please to he Chapter, Section and paragraph In CRA 2015 where this proof requirement is stated?

[mzbl00]

Re: car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject - please help!

Could you direct me please to he Chapter, Section and paragraph In CRA 2015 where this proof requirement is stated?

Can someone please show me where it is in the consumer rights act it says the burden of proof isnt on me?

Every legal person i have spoken to ( going up to dozens here ) has told me the burden of proof is on me

putting into google consumer rights act short term right to reject burden of proof into google ALSO says the same thing

If someone can point me to the legislation covering this it would be useful - is every legal firm in the country wrong?

[mzbl00]

Re: car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject - please help!

http://www.retailmotorlaw.co.uk/inde...pany&Itemid=78

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Amethyst: the man fist sized hole was caused directly by the conrod going through the engine block and is a sign of a catastrophic engine failure - an engine cannot run with a hole in it and a connecting rod smashed in it

[des8]

Re: car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject - please help!

Please ignore "retail motor law".
That is a very misleading interpretation of the law made before the law came into force.

I quoted and referenced the act in post 29.

You have to show the car was faulty (seized engine proof enough) but the trader has to prove the fault causing the damage was not present at the time of the sale


On an aside you can run an engine which has been holed by a con rod.
54 years ago friends and I drove a 1932 Morris 8 to Rome.
We threw a con rod through the side of engine.
Pot mender (bolt and 2 metal plates), weight crankshaft and we drove home (as far as Calais) on three pistons.

[Amethyst]

Re: car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject - please help!

Section 19 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ion/19/enacted

(14)For the purposes of subsections (3)(b) and (c) and (4), goods which do not conform to the contract at any time within the period of six months beginning with the day on which the goods were delivered to the consumer must be taken not to have conformed to it on that day.

(15)Subsection (14) does not apply if—

(a)it is established that the goods did conform to the contract on that day,

The burden of proof that the fault did not exist at the time of purchase is on the seller - ie. it is assumed that it was unless they prove otherwise.

That only applies within the first six months.

As Des said ( crossed posts)

You have to show the car was faulty (seized engine proof enough) but the trader has to prove the fault causing the damage was not present at the time of the sale

[Amethyst]

Re: car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject - please help!

http://www.retailmotorlaw.co.uk/inde...pany&Itemid=78

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Amethyst: the man fist sized hole was caused directly by the conrod going through the engine block and is a sign of a catastrophic engine failure - an engine cannot run with a hole in it and a connecting rod smashed in it

Okay so there was a fault with the conrod ( and other things) at the time of sale and it is those faults which directly led to the conrod going through the engine block. So they'd have to prove that there was nothing wrong with the conrod ( or other bits) at the time of sale, as it is assumed that there was, unless they prove otherwise.

[mzbl00]

Re: car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject - please help!

okay but got this from the notes direct from CCA gov

97.Subsections (14) and (15) provide that, if a breach of the statutory rights – for example a fault - arises in the first 6 months from delivery, it is presumed to have been present at the time of delivery unless the trader proves otherwise or this presumption is incompatible with the nature of the goods or the particular breach or fault. This applies where the consumer exercises their right to a repair or replacement or their right to a price reduction or the final right to reject. This does not apply where the consumer exercises the short-term right to reject. These subsections correspond to section 48A(3) and (4) of the SGA and section 11M(3) and (4) of the SGSA.








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its not JUSt the retail law website. it is literally HUNDREDS of websites that say this.

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourc...mer+rights+act

[des8]

Re: car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject - please help!

okay but got this from the notes direct from CCA gov

97.Subsections (14) and (15) provide that, if a breach of the statutory rights – for example a fault - arises in the first 6 months from delivery, it is presumed to have been present at the time of delivery unless the trader proves otherwise or this presumption is incompatible with the nature of the goods or the particular breach or fault. This applies where the consumer exercises their right to a repair or replacement or their right to a price reduction or the final right to reject. This does not apply where the consumer exercises the short-term right to reject. These subsections correspond to section 48A(3) and (4) of the SGA and section 11M(3) and (4) of the SGSA.








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its not JUSt the retail law website. it is literally HUNDREDS of websites that say this.

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourc...mer+rights+act

Your quote refers to CCA and SGA SGAS legislation prior to CRA 2015 which has superceded them

[mzbl00]

Re: car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject - please help!

umm no its from the CRA notes

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...vision/3/1/3/4

[Amethyst]

Re: car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject - please help!

You need to show there is a fault in order to reject, if the seller comes back and says it wasn't there at the date of sale, you say 'yes it was, how could a conrod deteriorate that quickly to cause such damage if there was nothing wrong with it before date of sale', then they try and prove the conrod was perfect..... it's all subjective and your garage report backs up that the fault could not have occurred so quickly after purchase had it not been faulty before the purchase, even if you drove like a lunatic.

Has the garage actually come back and said 'it wasn't like that when we sold it to you' ?

Short term right to reject doesn't rely on a fault anyway does it? ( as you're in 30 days NOT 6 months )

[mzbl00]

Re: car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject - please help!

its an automatic so cant be ragged about

regarding the report - that is what i am trying to get - a CR35 report - to show that yes the conrod has gone through the engine - possible reasons why ( its not possible to know for sure ) any other defects noticed on the car and their opinion.

from the solicitors ( and tallys to what ive read )

Plainly, the Vehicle was well used and part worn and the issues of satisfactory quality


and fitness for purpose must be viewed in that context.


Under the ‘Short Term Right to Reject’, you must prove that the Vehicle is not of


satisfactory quality or not fit for purpose and that the fault in question was present


at the time of delivery.


We refer you to section 19(15)(a) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

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http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ion/19/enacted

[Amethyst]

Re: car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject - please help!

Okay 19(15)... poss b) is what they are referring to with the ''Plainly, the Vehicle was well used and part worn and the issues of satisfactory quality and fitness for purpose must be viewed in that context."

(14)For the purposes of subsections (3)(b) and (c) and (4), goods which do not conform to the contract at any time within the period of six months beginning with the day on which the goods were delivered to the consumer must be taken not to have conformed to it on that day.

(15)Subsection (14) does not apply if—

(a)it is established that the goods did conform to the contract on that day, or

(b)its application is incompatible with the nature of the goods or with how they fail to conform to the contract.

[mzbl00]

Re: car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject - please help!

theyre saying that because the engine wasnt seized when i bought it, that there wasnt a fault

so the burden of proof is on me to show that there was an underlying fault with the engine at the time of sale.

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and they specically reference 19, 15 A

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THE BURDEN OF PROOF
If the consumer chooses repair, replacement, price reduction or the final right to reject, and if the defect is discovered within six months of delivery, it is assumed that the fault was there at the time of delivery unless the trader can prove otherwise or unless this assumption is inconsistent with the circumstances (for example, obvious signs of misuse).
If more than six months have passed, the consumer has to prove the defect was there at the time of delivery. He must also prove the defect was there at the time of delivery if he exercises the short-term right to reject goods. Some defects do not become apparent until some time after delivery, and in these cases it is enough to prove that there was an underlying or hidden defect at that time.

[des8]

Re: car dealer giving me the runaround - 30 day right to reject - please help!

but section19 (15) (a) means they have to establish the goods did conform to the contract ie were fit for purpose

(15)

Subsection (14) does not apply if—

(a)

it is established that the goods did conform to the contract on that day, or