Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

[Shanemorgan]

Hi All
I recently made a purchase from a private seller on Gumtree. The package arrived via parcel force and the contents were severely damaged the outer postal bag had been opened and then folded back under as if to conceal this had occurred and the bag was covered in dried out coffee. My partner signed for this item as she was getting in the car for a school run so paid no particular attention to its condition. When the package was opened and the internals were revealed there was clear damage to the top left hand side of the device cover was smashed and all the control knobs and switches had been bent and snapped. I quickly contacted the seller to advise of the situation and also made enquiries with parcelforce and made them aware of the situation. I was advised by parcelforce that the seller would have to pursue this matter with them which he did and after they basically told him that the item was not packaged correctly to accommodate the internals they basically closed the case the item was insured via parcelforce also.
Now the seller is asking me to pursue this matter through the county courts for a resolution and compensation which I am unclear as to whether that is actually my place to do so or his as he is my point of contact not parcelforce.
Has anyone got any advice on this matter as I am starting to loose my patience it appears I am to do all the running around and be out of pocket at the same time.

Thanks in advance
Shane Morgan

[des8]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

Hi and welcome
The responsible person is the consignor.
In the absence of an agreement to he contrary, the seller is responsible for the item until it is delivered.
If it is damaged in transit the buyer can pursue the seller and it is up to the seller to recover costs from the carrier if appropriate.
If the goods need to be returned to the seller, the seller pays the return costs.

[Shanemorgan]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

Hi there,
Thanks for the reply is this a legal chain of events or just a best practise type of thing between reasonable people ? The seller is asking me to do the county court pursue with parcelforce even though parcelforce themselves have already ruled out a claim based on the packaging not being adequate for its contents. So with me chasing it through county court all I am doing is adding further expense to an already loosing situation if that makes sense. I played it out to the seller as he is my point of contact and should resolve the issue and make any attempts of self recovery himself.
Am I in the wrong for thinking like this or no ?

Thanks in advance
Shane Morgan

[des8]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

No, you are correct.
Your course of action would be to sue the seller, who can then in turn sue the carrier.
Unless there is an agreement to the contrary the seller is responsible up to the point of delivery
Sale of goods act 1979 sec 27 "It is the duty of the seller to deliver the goods, and of the buyer to accept and pay for them, in accordance with the terms of the contract of sale."

[Shanemorgan]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

No, you are correct.
Your course of action would be to sue the seller, who can then in turn sue the carrier.
Unless there is an agreement to the contrary the seller is responsible up to the point of delivery
Sale of goods act 1979 sec 27 "It is the duty of the seller to deliver the goods, and of the buyer to accept and pay for them, in accordance with the terms of the contract of sale."

Thanks again for this response. The fact I have signed for and taken possession of the goods does that put me in the frame of acceptance even in the event of it being internally ( within the packaging ) damaged.
Sorry for being a pain I just want to make sure I get this clear in my own head as I have never been in this position before.
I have paid for the goods in full which my bank statement supports. plus I have all the email correspondents between myself and the seller.

Thanks again
Shane Morgan

[des8]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

No, acceptance of the goods only takes place after you have had a reasonable time to examine them.
So taking delivery, and even signing for the parcel, does not signify acceptance even if the note says the goods were received in good condition.

[Shanemorgan]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

No, acceptance of the goods only takes place after you have had a reasonable time to examine them.
So taking delivery, and even signing for the parcel, does not signify acceptance even if the note says the goods were received in good condition.

Great thanks very much for the advice. I still don't know what to do but I know where I stand at least.
Thanks Again
Shane

[wales01man]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

I think you should contact the seller and say the contract with Parcelforce is theirs any action must be theirs.

Ask for a refund of the purchase price interesting to hear what they say

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

Hi there,
Thanks for the reply is this a legal chain of events or just a best practise type of thing between reasonable people ? The seller is asking me to do the county court pursue with parcelforce even though parcelforce themselves have already ruled out a claim based on the packaging not being adequate for its contents. So with me chasing it through county court all I am doing is adding further expense to an already loosing situation if that makes sense. I played it out to the seller as he is my point of contact and should resolve the issue and make any attempts of self recovery himself.

There is also the fact that there is no contract between yourself and Parcelforce, the contract would be between the seller and Parcelforce and between yourself and the seller.

[Shanemorgan]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

There is also the fact that there is no contract between yourself and Parcelforce, the contract would be between the seller and Parcelforce and between yourself and the seller.

Hi there thanks for the reply, I am getting nowhere fast I have highlighted all the details to the seller as advised and am waiting for a response. The seller has acknowledged that he has been in the same situation twice previous with parcelforce and has had to replace the items free of charge as they deemed insufficient packaging was used so I have asked the question firstly why continue to use their service if you have had negative experiences prior and secondly if they have informed of insufficient packaging on those instances why was this item extra specially packed being an electronic device. I pointed out box's are freely available and are only penny's if purchased.

[des8]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

Nothing to do until seller comes back to you (or not after a reasonable time)
Sounds as if he's a bit "twp".

[Shanemorgan]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

Nothing to do until seller comes back to you (or not after a reasonable time)
Sounds as if he's a bit "twp".

Hi There,

Below is the reply I got today.

Hi Shane,

I don’t feel our correspondence is being helpful and I also disagree with the advice you have been given.
If you wish to start the legal proceedings with Parcel Force you have my full co-operation.
If you feel you want to start legal proceedings against me let me assure you that I will co-operate fully with the court and accept their judgement, absolutely.
Parcel force have been negligent, as is evidenced by the coffee you say is inside the inner wrapping. I think you will find another person cannot be held for another's negligence.
If one of your Learned Friends wishes to email me directly with their legal argument as to why I am wrong, I will consider same.


Regards,

Thanks
Shane

[Shanemorgan]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

Hi There

Below is the next response.

Hi Shane,

Negligence has nothing to do with contract.
I clearly stated I would post the item but not take responsibility for posting it.
Please start the legal proceedings and I will abide by the court decision and fully cooperate with them.
I will support your legal action but will not correspond in any other way.

Regards,


I have nothing documented stating his lack of responsibility to postage.
He has also indicated that he has been in the same situation twice previous with parcelforce and has replaced the faulty goods free of charge but feels he doesn't have to this time.
He has also advised that on both the other occurrences that parcelforce has advised of lack of improper packaging on point of a claim.
He disagrees that shipping a £500.00 radio transceiver does not require a box that simple bubble wrap will suffice.

How much is this going to cost me to pursue ?

Thanks
Shane

[des8]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

If you proceed to court using the online system the initial fee is £35 for claims up to £500.
The hearing fee for that amount of claim is £55.
Total costs £90 (recoverable from other party when they lose)

"I clearly stated I would post the item but not take responsibility for posting it."
So if he had just stuck a label on it that would have been all right!

"I will support your legal action"?????????????????????

[Shanemorgan]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

If you proceed to court using the online system the initial fee is £35 for claims up to £500.
The hearing fee for that amount of claim is £55.
Total costs £90 (recoverable from other party when they lose)

"I clearly stated I would post the item but not take responsibility for posting it."
So if he had just stuck a label on it that would have been all right!

"I will support your legal action"?????????????????????

I think this guy just likes the thought of going to court as when he was speaking to me on the phone about me taking parcelforce to court he was telling me to hold back information until I got to court i.e the parcelforce claim number.
Do I have to do the online thing through the website for my local courts ?
I think this is going to go to the bitter end unless I decide to right off the amount of moneys paid.

This was the quote from a previous email where I questioned his actions on the previous 2 damaged shipments he made to other customers of his

Couples send their old albums back and I replace them FOC. I have tried claiming from PF but they always say it’s the packing
The trade price for an album is less than £50. It’s a small percentage of what I ship that get’s destroyed and it’s easier to make another one up than make a claim.
I can’t see a box adding anything to lot’s of bubble wrap. What’s a thin bit of cardboard going to do?

So this to me says he has no idea of proper secure packaging for his everyday items let alone something a little bit more specialist and delicate even after 2 warnings on the matter previous. Also why would you use a service you have had problems with when there are so many other options out there these days ?

Thanks
shane