Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

[Shanemorgan]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

OK, it does the job, but ask only for "the documents on which you may rely" and delete "parcelforces outcome ,,,,,,,,,, dipatched package
,

Hi There,
Letter has been sent recorded delivery now just have to wait.
Thanks for all the help provided its really appreciated.

Will report back the outcome

Thanks
Shane

[Shanemorgan]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

Hi There,
Letter has been sent recorded delivery now just have to wait.
Thanks for all the help provided its really appreciated.

Will report back the outcome

Thanks
Shane

Hi All

Have now received a reply to my formal letter. it is copied below.

Dear Mr Morgan

Thank you for your pre-claim letter dated 1^st july 2015. I am sorry you feel it necessary to write in the tone you have written as I have already told you I will do everything I can to cooperate with the court.
I acknowledge you immediately informed me of the damage to your parcel. You described the parcel as having the appearance of being opened and the re-sealed with extensive damage to the outer wrapping in the form of holes and damage to the VR-5000. Additionally, you said there was coffee not only inside the outer wraping but also inside the bubble wrap. We agreed that the damage was not accidental but due to negligence. Clearly my post office would not of accepted the parcel with holes in it so the assumption is that the damage is due to Parcelforce.
We both made claims against Parcelforce but they declined to accept responsibility.
I suggested we start legal proceedings against Parcelforce for their negligence but you have chosen to start a legal action against me. Clearly I cannot be held responsible for another parties negligence so I intend to defend this action.
I now answer the points you raise as follows.
I confirm Parcelforce have declined my claim on the grounds of the items insufficient packaging.
I will disclose my evidence on direction of the court.
I now request the following:
On what date did a Parcelforce representative examine the item and its packaging ?
Did you point out the coffee stains on the inside of the bubble wrap ? Did representative acknowledge the outer wrapping had the appearance of being opened and then re-sealed ?
Please keep the item safe until the Court direct otherwise or I ask for it.
Do you now deny you told me the package appeared to be opened and re-sealed?
Do you now deny you told me coffee was found inside not only the outer bag but also inside the bubble wrap?
I am happy to proceed with a court action rather than mediation due to the fact that resolution of this matter will, in my opinion, require the involvement of Parcelforce and I don’t think mediation is possible between three parties nor do I believe Parcelforce would participate in mediation.
You are more than welcome to seek sanctions against me and I will be pleased to comply with them but please do not apply for them EX-party.
You are more than welcome to start court proceedings against me immediately as I know you want to resolve this matter as quickly as possible.
I am sorry we could not work together to seek redress from Parcelforce but assure you I will cooperate with the court in every way I can but of course, you have started this action against me and I am entitled and have good reason to defend it.
I wish you good luck,
Your sincerely

A point I have picked up on and need clarification against. What is meant by apply for sanctions EX-party ?
Secondly I have never put a claim in against parcelforce as they advised me the same as everyone else it has to come from the seller all I did was fill in the questionnaire they sent me based on the claim the seller filed.
A parcelforce representative ? they received all the photographs that were taken along with the descriptions I gave which I was asked for an emailed over to them when I returned the questionnaire as direct to.

What is the next step ?

Thanks
Shane

[ostell]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

This guy seems to be still under the illusion that you can take parcel force to court. How many times does he have to be told that you cannot take action against Parcel Force as you do not have a contract with them.

Looks like you will have to start the small claim against him for the return of the money. I can't think of anything else to do that will persuade him that he has a liability to you. I don't really know what his defence will be, I presume it will be "It's not my fault, it's Parcel Force". Not good enough I'm afraid.

Issuing a claim on line is a fairly easy process. I'm sure there wil be every help here.

Any documentation that he intends to rely on for the court will have to be disclosed to you before the case is heard.

[des8]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

The next stage is to issue a claim through the courts.
The easier and cheaper method is through MCOL (https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome)
Here's a useful link to help you understand the process:http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...-for-Claimants
If you want , post up your claim (suitably redacted) so we can give it the once over.

His defence is IMO a non starter. He is responsible for delivering the goods....full stop. Not parcelforce. Any claim he might have against Parcelforce is a separate matter between him and them.

When he requests that you don't apply for sanctions against him ex party, i wonder if he thinks this is all a big party and he doesn't want to miss out. He's been ever so keen to go to court.
I think he probably means "ex parte", and suspects you might go to court without his knowledge. I won't go into the whys and wherefore of ex parte applications, and why this won't be possible in this case but if you are interested you could read up here :http://www.drukker.co.uk/publication.../#.VZa3RvlViko

Crossed with Ostell (slow typing)

[Shanemorgan]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

This guy seems to be still under the illusion that you can take parcel force to court. How many times does he have to be told that you cannot take action against Parcel Force as you do not have a contract with them.

Looks like you will have to start the small claim against him for the return of the money. I can't think of anything else to do that will persuade him that he has a liability to you. I don't really know what his defence will be, I presume it will be "It's not my fault, it's Parcel Force". Not good enough I'm afraid.

Issuing a claim on line is a fairly easy process. I'm sure there wil be every help here.

Any documentation that he intends to rely on for the court will have to be disclosed to you before the case is heard.

Hi Ostell

Thanks for the reply I don't know how else I can get through to this guy but hey ho here we go I guess so going to look up the info and see how to get this going.

Thanks
Shane

- - - Updated - - -

The next stage is to issue a claim through the courts.
The easier and cheaper method is through MCOL (https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome)
Here's a useful link to help you understand the process:http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...-for-Claimants
If you want , post up your claim (suitably redacted) so we can give it the once over.

His defence is IMO a non starter. He is responsible for delivering the goods....full stop. Not parcelforce. Any claim he might have against Parcelforce is a separate matter between him and them.

When he requests that you don't apply for sanctions against him ex party, i wonder if he thinks this is all a big party and he doesn't want to miss out. He's been ever so keen to go to court.
I think he probably means "ex parte", and suspects you might go to court without his knowledge. I won't go into the whys and wherefore of ex parte applications, and why this won't be possible in this case but if you are interested you could read up here :http://www.drukker.co.uk/publication.../#.VZa3RvlViko

Crossed with Ostell (slow typing)

Hi Des

Going to take a look at those links now tomorrow and try and get the ball rolling I feel like im banging my head against a brick wall and this guy must be lonely or something and require a little drama in his life but it wont be at my cost in the end.

Thanks
Shane

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

A point I have picked up on and need clarification against. What is meant by apply for sanctions EX-party ?

It means he's been googling around and parroting words he's found without having a clue what they mean (or even how to spell them), like a small child.

The term would be ex-parte, not ex-party! :loco: It means without notice. In certain cases, it's necessary to make applications to the court without notifying the other side because if they were notified, they could take action that would defeat the point of the application. A common example is an interim charging order, which is intended to stop the owner of a property from disposing of it before a final charging order is recorded.

I can't see how the term would relate to this case at all, you'd be making a claim and he'll have the opportunity to settle, admit or defend it.

[Shanemorgan]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

It means he's been googling around and parroting words he's found without having a clue what they mean (or even how to spell them), like a small child.

The term would be ex-parte, not ex-party! :loco: It means without notice. In certain cases, it's necessary to make applications to the court without notifying the other side because if they were notified, they could take action that would defeat the point of the application. A common example is an interim charging order, which is intended to stop the owner of a property from disposing of it before a final charging order is recorded.

I can't see how the term would relate to this case at all, you'd be making a claim and he'll have the opportunity to settle, admit or defend it.

Hi there,
Thanks for clearing that up for me I went back and checked my spelling to make sure it was not a spelling mistake when I typed out his letter to display it on here but I have done it correctly as he has written it as I have.

I have now registered on the money claim online site and today I will go through the register a new claim forms online and get the ball rolling.

Thanks
Shane

[wales01man]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

When he gets the claim he will have to respond in the proper way not try to pass the buck to Parcelforce if he has been looking on line would expect je has found that you have no Contract with Parcelforce its his problem.

chances he can win must be zero or less.

[Shanemorgan]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

When he gets the claim he will have to respond in the proper way not try to pass the buck to Parcelforce if he has been looking on line would expect je has found that you have no Contract with Parcelforce its his problem.

chances he can win must be zero or less.

Hi (wales)

Well I thought that but hey if he wants to keep shifting the blame then that's fine. The way I see it is a £500 fragile'ish electronic device should of been in a box they are bought and when they come from the shops they are in a double box an outer shipping box and then the original product box inside that again and packed with poly shapes to hold securely. Common sense dictates at least a box as they are more structurally secure than just bubbles.

I have attached some picture of how it came now I have worked out how to do it

Thanks
Shane

[Shanemorgan]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

Hi All

This is the statement I am thinking of putting on the Particulars Of Claim section in the statement box is this ok ?

Yaesu VR5000 Communications receiver
purchased 15/06/15 for the sum of £165.00.
Item arrived via Parcelforce (damaged) on the
17/06/15 this being the external packaging
and internal receiver itself and therefor I
immediately notified yourself of the
situation of which you acknowledged. I am
seeking a full refund as both myself and
Parcelforce have declared the packaging
unsuitable and insufficient for the item
being shipped which has led to the damage.
This damage has rendered the receiver
completely unusable and inoperable with
physical front facia damage.

Thanks
Shane

[des8]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

There is a standard format for court documents, and while as a LiP you have a certain leeway, it doesn't hurt to follow the standard.
For clarity only refer to " the claimant" and "the defendant"; avoid "I" & "YOU" as those terms can be confusing to a third party reading the documents.
The condition of the packaging does not form part of your claim, (altho' the defendant might think it a part of his defence!)
I would suggest something along the lines:

1. On 15 June 2015 the claimant purchased via the internet a YAESU 5000 communications receiver in the sum of £165.00 from the defendant.
2. The defendant was to deliver the item to the claimant's premises
3. The item was delivered on 17 June 2015 damaged
4. The item is not fit for purpose
5. Despite written requests the defendant has refused to refund the purchase price
AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS
1.The sum of £165
2.Interest as per sec 69 of the county Courts Act 1984 at such rate and for such period as the court thinks fit
3.Costs

[Shanemorgan]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

Great advice as always and has now been submitted so fingers crossed.
Typical time lines for something like this would be ?
What should I expect as it progresses ?

Thanks
Shane

[des8]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

Give the court time to serve the claim, defendant then has a couple of weeks to acknowledge, and then a further couple of weeks to file his defence.
So probably three to five weeks before the next stage.

You should next hear that the claim is being defended, and you are given a copy of the defence.
There's a fairly comprehensive guide of the process here:
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/la.../small-claims/

[Amethyst]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

Within 14 days ( plus 3-5 days for service) the defendant should acknowledge receipt of the claim with the court
If they do, then within 28 days ( plus 3-5 for service) they should enter their defence.

You'll be able to keep track by checking on Moneyclaim online if you submitted the claim online. If either of those deadlines are not met you will be able to file for default judgment - however don't be too quick off the mark on that so give it a few extra days.

After you have received their defence you will both receive directions questionnaires and possibly then go through the court mediation process. If that fails a hearing date would be set.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Not sure what to do next damaged package ( parcelforce )

Looking at the pics above, I can't see what defence he could have, other than it got damaged in transit, but that was his fault. If you are selling something for £165 it's not unrealistic to spend a few quid on suitable packaging.

Let's hope he sees sense and, seeing that a claim has actually been issued, he decides to refund the money. Once upon a time many years ago, a web design client said on an email that "no court in the land would make him pay me" after a personal argument over a misdirected email that had nothing to do with the work done. When a claim was issued (back then in the CC), a cheque was in the post within days! :grin: :grin: :grin: