Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

[Victoria27]

Re: Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

Yes, full refund plus 8% interest. (I even wrote full refund plus interest, knowing that it should be 8%, and that it exactly what they refunded )

About end date.
Full refund plus interest should be enough, "full" covers it. That is what I wrote.

I quote for you some example from the Ombudsman's materials:
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u..._for_mis-sold_

"Because you haven’t had that money since you closed your account, we’ll add interest to that amount at 8% per year simple from the date you closed your account up to now to compensate you for the loss of use of that money, which is a further ...."

So, because of the interest ("loss of use"), it has to be really up to the date they refund. That is why I left the date out , just saying "full refund plus interest."

There are fabulous experts here, on LB, who know how to calculate what you should get, but I am not one of them , I just have some ideas about general rules.

V

[Victoria27]

Re: Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

Once again, dear Bazza, please feel free and ask all the questions which are on your mind.

I will try to answer them as soon as I have a chance, if I know the answer.
If not, I'll suggest to ask somebody who does. There are great expert on that forum.

If you have more doubts or questions, please do post them. That is what we are here for.

V

[Bazza]

Re: Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

Yes, full refund plus 8% interest. (I even wrote full refund plus interest, knowing that it should be 8%, and that it exactly what they refunded )

About end date.
Full refund plus interest should be enough, "full" covers it. That is what I wrote.

I quote for you some example from the Ombudsman's materials:
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u..._for_mis-sold_

"Because you haven’t had that money since you closed your account, we’ll add interest to that amount at 8% per year simple from the date you closed your account up to now to compensate you for the loss of use of that money, which is a further ...."

So, because of the interest ("loss of use"), it has to be really up to the date they refund. That is why I left the date out , just saying "full refund plus interest."

There are fabulous experts here, on LB, who know how to calculate what you should get, but I am not one of them , I just have some ideas about general rules.

V

Victoria,

Many thanks and so much appreciated again.

I will keep you posted

Bazza

[Victoria27]

Re: Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

You are welcome, Bazza.
I shall wait for your update.

V

[Bazza]

Re: Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

You are welcome, Bazza.
I shall wait for your update.

V

Rejection letter received today on the basis of non-advised sale :tinysmile_cry_t:

Rather confused by their response as it was given to me after up-grading to an Advantage Gold Bank account at my branch at the time.

If you recall I was trying to obtain a copy of my application through my SAR but they didn't have details. I do have user guide details and acknowledgement letter dated January 1999 regarding the bank account.

I have attached the edited copy of letter and do you think that they are hoping that I just accept their response ? Any assistants in responding would be appreciated.

Cheers

Bazza

[Victoria27]

Re: Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

Bazza,

I can see you received a standard rejection letter.
Your case is obviously opened and you can challenge it.
However in order for us to prepare a good and strong reply it is very important to show that in no way you would have made "an informed decision" to take that PPI, if all the relevant information was disclosed to you properly prior to sale being completed.
That means you have to show that in your particular circumstances PPI was either useless for you as you could not have possibly made a successful claim (either due to your employment status or pre-existing medical conditions) or at least it was absolutely not needed for you (for instance, you had other means to repay, other insurances or substantial savings, which you can prove you had).
You have to show that in no way you would have taken this PPI, because [.....your personal circumstances...]

It is a common sense that we usually avoid taking on additional expenses.
It is reasonable to believe that you would not have taken an additional expensive product if you knew that it was not necessary, not compulsory, but optional! considering your personal circumstances! which are....[....]
Why would you take it, unless you were led to believe it was necessary to get PPI.
So, please, think about your personal circumstances, which will prove without a shadow of doubt that you did not need this cover.
If you do have such circumstances, it will be convincing and believable that you would not have ever taken PPI if the relevant information was disclosed to you properly before sale was completed.
It is possible to argue some of the points of the letter you received, referring to the FCA guidelines. However in order to present your case properly it is very important for a non advised sale case to show that you were not given a relevant information prior to sale being completed in order to enable you to make an informed decision NOT to take PPI. For that reason you have to demonstrate that you would not have taken it, because...[...your personal circumstances].

Those are my preliminary thoughts.
Best,

Victoria

[Bazza]

Re: Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

Bazza,

I can see you received a standard rejection letter.
Your case is obviously opened and you can challenge it.
However in order for us to prepare a good and strong reply it is very important to show that in no way you would have made "an informed decision" to take that PPI, if all the relevant information was disclosed to you properly prior to sale being completed.
That means you have to show that in your particular circumstances PPI was either useless for you as you could not have possibly made a successful claim (either due to your employment status or pre-existing medical conditions) or at least it was absolutely not needed for you (for instance, you had other means to repay, other insurances or substantial savings, which you can prove you had).
You have to show that in no way you would have taken this PPI, because [.....your personal circumstances...]

It is a common sense that we usually avoid taking on additional expenses.
It is reasonable to believe that you would not have taken an additional expensive product if you knew that it was not necessary, not compulsory, but optional! considering your personal circumstances! which are....[....]
Why would you take it, unless you were led to believe it was necessary to get PPI.
So, please, think about your personal circumstances, which will prove without a shadow of doubt that you did not need this cover.
If you do have such circumstances, it will be convincing and believable that you would not have ever taken PPI if the relevant information was disclosed to you properly before sale was completed.
It is possible to argue some of the points of the letter you received, referring to the FCA guidelines. However in order to present your case properly it is very important for a non advised sale case to show that you were not given a relevant information prior to sale being completed in order to enable you to make an informed decision NOT to take PPI. For that reason you have to demonstrate that you would not have taken it, because...[...your personal circumstances].

Those are my preliminary thoughts.
Best,

Victoria

Hi Victoria,

Many thanks for your time in responding.

At the time of the sale I was in full-time employment, I had benefit in death cover and Sickness and redundancy cover (I am sure I still have employment details somewhere). I also had savings that would have more than enough covered any balance at time the account was opened.

I do not recall ever receiving the Insurance details that they forwarded, as if you recall there was no application evidence or any policy details submitted with the SAR and I have in writing that these were not available.

I have this afternoon spoken to SAR department and asked as to why there was no dialogue or telephone conversation details provided as per my request ? I was told probably because it was so old and had been destroyed.

They are going to investigate further and they are going to respond by Monday as a matter of urgency. I think I mentioned before that the only conversation that I recall having was a conversation in my branch at the time about up-grading my current account to a Gold Account, hence application for the Gold Card.

Do you think I should reply with something now or wait until I have received further information ?

I also took the opportunity in mentioning and requesting SAR details of the above mentioned bank account and asked as to why no details were provided as my request was for everything appertaining to myself.

Cheers

Bazza

[Bazza]

Re: Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

oh and I forgot to add that they mention in their letter that the account was opened in July 1990 and PPI added in February 1999 ?

I have also requested confirmation from SAR dept that they are relating to the same credit card as I know very well that I have other cards and all had added PPI on inception :tinysmile_twink_t2:

[Victoria27]

Re: Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

Thank you, Bazza.
It is very useful information.
So you did have other means to repay. It is very good.
Considering your sheduled communication with SAR on Monday, you can safely wait and reply then.
Did I understand you correctly, there was nearly 9 years between your getting your card and PPI, attached to that card?
Also, is that correct that there is no real "tangible" evidence related to your so called "request" for PPI? No written request on the application form, no "footprint" of your telephone conversation?
It is reasonable to believe that unless your circumstances changed since you got your card first, it is highly unlikely that you suddenly requested PPI which you did not requested in the first place.

V

[Bazza]

Re: Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

Thank you, Bazza.
It is very useful information.
So you did have other means to repay. It is very good.
Considering your sheduled communication with SAR on Monday, you can safely wait and reply then.
Did I understand you correctly, there was nearly 9 years between your getting your card and PPI, attached to that card?
Also, is that correct that there is no real "tangible" evidence related to your so called "request" for PPI? No written request on the application form, no "footprint" of your telephone conversation?
It is reasonable to believe that unless your circumstances changed since you got your card first, it is highly unlikely that you suddenly requested PPI which you did not requested in the first place.

V

V Thanks again.

OK I will await the response then take it from there, as there does not seem to be any cut-off time for my reply and no mention of a Final Response.

Yes you are correct (clearly stated in writing in their letter lol) hence I have also queried this with the girl at the SAR dept, who is going to enquire further. Even she mentioned that that seems odd as there was no copy of the original application details to confirm this.

I did have another Visa card with Natwest in which I have majority of statements from August 1990 (when it was opened) but this was transferred to another account (in July 1994) in which I have located the relevant statement proving this.

I can only think that this may have been closed and then transferred to a Gold Account Card but I have a period of about 8 months missing statements to try to confirm this and have also requested them. There again I had PPI on the onset so I am thinking that they are confusing the issue.

During my conversation today, I also asked that they confirm all evidence as to when the accounts were opened and closed or transferred, if all statements cannot be provided.

Also there was no application or agreement details provided (I have also requested further confirmation) and no telephone conversation details as too old (but again I have requested some sort of dialogue).

All very strange to say the least, so perhaps they are trying to fob me off, who knows !

Bazza

[leclerc]

Re: Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

Further to my earlier post Natwest SAR failed to provide CCA, any copy of the original application form and any copies of correspondences / notes on my account. I did notify them that I was at my old address when card originally applied for.

Does any experts on here know anything about the 'NatWest Archive' system or had any experience with this ?

Do I now send a failed SAR letter or shall I just proceed with my ppi complaint on the strength as to what I have and my reasoning for miss-selling ?

It's annoying as this is probably one of the only c/cards that I cannot trace my original agreement.

Apologies Bazza for joining so late and I might add I have yet to read the rest of the thread. I am only aware of NatWest archive in terms of finding information. In terms of the archive that I was aware of, we could find out the date the card was taken out which usually on the personal account archive(although I have never used it to look for credit cards with it).

I don't know but I assume an archive exists from when RBS migrated its systems together(they did with personal accounts but not sure on credit card accounts).

Still reading btw......

[Bazza]

Re: Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

Apologies Bazza for joining so late and I might add I have yet to read the rest of the thread. I am only aware of NatWest archive in terms of finding information. In terms of the archive that I was aware of, we could find out the date the card was taken out which usually on the personal account archive(although I have never used it to look for credit cards with it).

I don't know but I assume an archive exists from when RBS migrated its systems together(they did with personal accounts but not sure on credit card accounts).

Still reading btw......

Don't apologise leclerc, the more input the merrier !

Yes I think you maybe right as when I spoke to Natwest SAR department, they did mention if it was in respect of a bank account that they may be able to provide statements going back to the nineties. In respect of credit cards it seems to be only statements available from October 2001.

All will hopefully be revealed by Monday, as I have left with them quite a few questions to answer regarding what was supplied with my SAR and what the bank is commenting on regarding my PPI complaint.

I will keep forum posted but any other input is always appreciated.

Bazza

[Victoria27]

Re: Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

Yes, Bazza, it does look like a standart generic rejection without going into details of your case.
All those facts sound good and work in your favour.
They actually do not have any prove that you ever requested PPI.

My questions for you:

Do you remember your telephone conversation? What is your recollection of it?
Was there a telephone conversation?
What information is available in your SAR about your telephone conversation and circumstances of your applying for PPI, which I understand you never did?
What are they referring to with the respect to that telephone conversation, considering there is no "footprint", no reference to the content of that conversation in the SAR?
What are their reasons to assume that you requested PPI?

Thank you.

V

[Bazza]

Re: Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

Yes, Bazza, it does look like a standart generic rejection without going into details of your case.
All those facts sound good and work in your favour.
They actually do not have any prove that you ever requested PPI.

My questions for you:

Do you remember your telephone conversation? What is your recollection of it?
Was there a telephone conversation?
What information is available in your SAR about your telephone conversation and circumstances of your applying for PPI, which I understand you never did?
What are they referring to with the respect to that telephone conversation, considering there is no "footprint", no reference to the content of that conversation in the SAR?
What are their reasons to assume that you requested PPI?

Thank you.

V

Hi V

I hope you are right as it did seem the standard ppi complaint response and similar to a previous one I had with NatWest last year in which eventually was upheld. The only difference being that I still had the original application with un-ticked box.

To be honest as it was sometime ago and the only conversations that I recall was in respect of the up-grading of my current account at my branch near my employment at the time. I even have a letter confirming that the account application was successful but no mention of any telephone conversation.

Its so frustrating when there might have been something regarding confirmation that the account was successful but I am certain it was all done via completing information package (as I still have the details) and like I said I did not complete the enclosed insurance part.

I have requested details from the SAR department in respect of this conversation as it was never previously provided or any submission of such agreement details. Hopefully by Monday all will be revealed but today I have also sent a written SAR reply via recorded delivery asking for copy of conversation or any dialogue pertaining to the opening of this account and any others.

They did state that I would have been provided with insurance details etc at the time of sale and on a non-advised basis but they do not actually say how it was sold. They only say that it was added on 3rd February 1999 following a telephone call in which was originally approved on the 27th July, 1990 ?

I only received copies of statements from October 2001, copies of written correspondences and a few manual notes (in which they confirm is that all they have) since 2005. They actual also confirm that I have PPI (even though I hadn't mentioned it) and to contact the PPI Manchester address.

I will post up the edited letter response and see if you think it is just the standard reply.

Cheers

Bazza

[Victoria27]

Re: Natwest Gold Visa & Mastercard PPI Complaint

Bazza, I do not think it is so important to get your original form in order to prove that you did not tick the box. They are not saying you applied for PPI at the beginning, but later, on the phone.
It is not clear for me, when according to them, this phone conversation took place, in 1990, if so, it makes it hard to believe that it took them almost 9 years to add the insurance, or
in 1990, which again makes it hard to believe that after 9 years you suddenly decided to apply for it, considering your circumstances did NOT change.

I understand that there is no PPI in your existing available statements from 2001.
Is that so?

It seems to me, they do not really have any reasonable proof that you, yourself, have ever applied for PPI.