Halifax - PPI

[egghead1]

Hi,
I'm about to make a claim for mis-selling of PPI on the following grounds:

1) I was told "confidentially" that my mortgage application would be unsuccessful without Halifax PPI for the larger income (mine) given the amount of money my wife and I were borrowing in comparison to my income and lack of savings.

2) I was also told "confidentially again" my mortgage application would be unsuccessful without Halifax PPI because I worked for a small company (sole trader) and therefore "more likely than average" to become unemployed - I'm still at the same place after 24 years.

3) I was told by the sales lady that "1 in 3 people die of cancer". She went on to say "I always tell couples that this means that one of us in this room will get cancer" and so my wife and I added the critical illness cover to the policy. This statistic is so wrong it's unbelievable. According to http://www.wcrf-uk.org/research/canc...istics_men.php incidence of cancer in men is 280 per 100,000 which equates to 0.28%. Allowing for a similar statistic for my wife we're still below 1% - not the 33% the sales lady quoted. I believe the stats should be even lower given that the figures quoted in the web site are for whole life, not for people in the age category 25-50.

I've only learned recently that PPI was not compulsory as I was led to believe, I have made early repayments to my mortgage over the last 10 years and reduced the level of cover on the PPI accordingly but never the less continued to maintain the policy. I was paying £54 a month for approximately 9 years and less over the last three years or so on original borrowing of approx £60,000 in 2001.

I believe I was mis-sold on the above grounds, that is, I was told PPI was compulsory for "someone like me" and lied to (scared into purchase) regarding the statistics on cancer. However I am about to pay off my morgage and so will be cancelling my PPI next month. Will this make any difference to my claim?

I also had an earlier policy (again with the Halifax) with my previous smaller mortgage. I have no clear memory as to whether or not I was told it was compulsory at the time of purchase of that policy but I do clearly remember the 1 in 3 statistic on cancer was used to scare me into purchasing PPI in case I got ill. Should I make a claim for this policy too? (I don't have the policy number but I do have my bank records showing payment from about 1998)

Thanks for you help

Regards

Dave

[Bill-K]

Re: Halifax - PPI

Hi, and welcome to you, Dave. Your grounds for complaint certainly appear sufficient !!! If you have ANY evidence that what you were told 'confidentially' was actually said to you, then that would be good - otherwise, I suspect it is simply your word against theirs, so don't rely entirely on that. The general 'compulsory' aspect is a fairly 'core' reason - so do emphasise that.

A further aspect may be that it appears that you were self-employed as a sole trader, and as such there would probably have been restrictions on your ability to claim, which were probably not explained to you. Yet another aspect is that you do not appear to have been told that PPI policies often only provide cover for the first few years (usually 5) of the loan term - although mortgage PPI (MPPI) may provide constant cover for the duration of the mortgage loan, and this is worth checking out.

It may well be worth sending Halifax a 'Data Subject Access Request' (DSAR) in order to elicit as much info as you can, before initiating a PPI claim. This will cost £10, but should provide you with all data they hold on you personally - and it is best done before you make a claim for mis-sold PPI. Lenders are also required to investigate any other loans they made to you for mis-sold PPI, so your earlier loan should be looked into. However - they tend to hide behind the '12-year rule,' which basically means that they can say that any data they have which is over 12 years old is destroyed. In such cases, you may have to be persistent in getting more data from them - and may need to rely on any data that you yourself have. Issuing a DSAR does give you the legal right to such data - and if it does still exist, then they are in breach of the Data Protection Act for witholding it without good reason.

It may be worth delaying paying off your mortgage until you have settled the PPI claim, as you would probably have a lower settlement figure after a successful PPI claim settlement - but in any event, we can work out the figures so that you are not disadvantaged by any early settlement. It may also help, if you can keep the loan account 'live' until this issue is resolved, as they should then retain all relevant data.

With PPI claims, there are two stages. The first is to secure an admission that the PPI was mis-sold. Once you have this, then the lender has made an admission that will be difficult to retract - and stage 2 is simply a matter of establishing the amount of redress that you are entitled to. I say 'simply,' but it can involve a bit of maths. Fear not, as we have spreadsheet programs that crunch the numbers - and geeks like me and Turboman who do the maths.

[egghead1]

Re: Halifax - PPI

Hi Bill,
Thanks for your reply.
I need to clear up a point first, I'm not self employed, my boss trades as a sole trader (not a limited company) and I work for him. It's just the two of us - sorry if I didn't make this clear to begin with.

I don't have any evidence about what was said but to my untrained eye it seems very similar to this case www.legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php?37933-Newbie-needs-help-ppi-claim-denied-by-Halifax

on which you have advised previously.

I'm sure I was given all the "correct" paper work and the Halifax will deny my claim but I know what was implied.

Given the success of the above claim which appears to me to be the Halifax's word against Lucie's I feel it's worth a go - or have I missed something.

Thanks again

Dave

[Bill-K]

Re: Halifax - PPI

Sorry for misunderstanding, but I assumed that if either you or your boss were a sole trader, then you would be self-employed. I'm no expert on employment law, but I have always thought that a sole trader was a 'one-man-band,' and could not take on employees. Are you sure you are actually employed (ie., you have a contract of employment) - or are you actually working as a sub-contractor (ie., self-employed) ?

Well done for 'reading up' on Lucie's claim (and others perhaps) - as this deffo gives you a better idea of what goes on. I think sending them a DSAR would be good, and I believe that it would be better if you delayed paying off the mortgage for now. Sending a DSAR means they are obliged under the DPA to supply ALL relevant data they hold - and this should go back 12 years for a mortgage. Keeping the account 'live' also means that they cannot pretend to have destroyed data. You should be able to get copies of the original mortgage agreement etc. I would deffo do all this before making a claim.

Also - gather up any other information that YOU have - including such things as bank statements, other insurance policies, etc., etc.

[charitynjw]

Re: Halifax - PPI

Whether you are employed (contract of service) or self-employed (contract for services) is largely a matter of substance, not form.

For instance, an Employment Tribunal might ask questions such as how much 'say' the person has in the day-to-day decisions of whether to go to work, where to go, what to do, etc
Also, if the person could not attend, could they nominate someone else in their stead.
So, if it appears that the control of these things lay in someone else's hands, the person is likely to be classed as an employee.

There is no legislation to say that there must be a written contract of employment, btw.
It is, however, more convenient & transparent for the agreed terms to be reduced into a written form.
What is necessary is a Statement of Particulars of Employment (within 2 months of commencing work)