FSCS... Can I trust them? Tampering with my documents.

[wishy100]

Hello everyone!

I've never felt the need to post on forums for help or advice as I usually find my answers from other peoples posts, however my experience with the FSCS today is so unusual your opinion on it would be greatly appreciated.

I processed a claim with the FSCS as my broker Norton Finance no longer exist, this is the only PPI that I have ever paid as I was told at the time that my application had a much better chance of being accepted with the ppi attached to it. It is not a big claim, I believe I paid a one off fee of £595 at the start of the loan which was arranged with Endeavour Personal Finance (who have been fantastic in helping me with all the documents I have required).

Moving on to the point of this post, after spending the past 5 months getting all the documents together and many phonecalls to the FSCS to push the claim through I recieved a letter on Sat stating my claim had been rejected as their investigation found that I had recieved instruction of the ppi on the 7th Jan 2005 which is 7 days prior to their cut off date of 14th Jan 2005. Initially I put this down to bad luck and accepted it, however I thought I would call them today to find out what documents they had used to come to this decision.... This is where it gets interesting....

I was instructed on the phone that they were in possession of a document that I had forwarded them which was signed and dated on the 7th Jan 2005. This document was merely a pre application to Norton finance which they would then forward to their approved lenders, referring to all of the original documents that I had kept (as I had sent them the photo copies) I asked the advisor to tell me where it stated on this document that I had been advised about the PPI on that date......

I was told that at the top of the document there was a box for the PPI and SINGLE COVER had been marked with an X, indicating to them that I had recieved advice about Payment Protection.

This box was not ticked on my original copy, but it was ticked on the copy that they had.

After telling him my copy was not ticked, and telling him that he had a photocopy of the document that I had in my possession with my handwriting on the top in ink he said he would speak to his collegue and call me back.

As soon as I put the phone down I called my lender Endeavour Personal Finance and they confirmed that this document is not ticked for any PPI cover.

This means my claim has been rejected by the FSCS because a document that has been altered whilst in the possession of the FSCS.

I genuinely cant understand how or why this would happen and am not sure of the implications of them doing this!

I have now asked endeavour to send them a copy of this document directly and will be awaiting a reply from the FSCS.

Has anyone come accross this before and where do I stand in respect to my claim?

I'm of the opinion that even if that box had been ticked It still should not invalidate my claim as it was merely a pre-application and at that point I had no lender and no terms and conditions explained about the PPI, The actual PPI was paid on the 4th of March 2005 which was over 6 weeks after their cut off date of January 15th 2005. None of this sits right with me and I need some more expert advice!

Hope someone can cast a second opinion on this for me..

Thank you!!

[leclerc]

Re: FSCS... Can I trust them? Tampering with my documents.

Have the FSCS come back to you IN WRITING yet? Is the loan still outstanding or is it paid off?

[wishy100]

Re: FSCS... Can I trust them? Tampering with my documents.

No time to reply in writing yet, however they called me back and requested that Endeavour send them a copy of the Pre-application direct, he stated on the phone that it was very unusual, that he had no explanation and they would look at it again when they recieve the document from Endeavour. Yes the loan is paid off, I believe I paid it off early in October 2007 when I sold my house.

[leclerc]

Re: FSCS... Can I trust them? Tampering with my documents.

It is the first time I have heard of this happening to be honest with you. Have you asked Endeavour for the FSCS to reciprocate by sending their copy to them?

It would be interesting to see if both the agreements are identical.

[wishy100]

Re: FSCS... Can I trust them? Tampering with my documents.

Did not think to request a copy of the document they have which is ticked, but it is perfectly clear from the conversation that I had today with the FSCS that there is a cross in the box requesting Single Cover PPI, this cross was definately not on it when I sent it to them and is not on the copy that EPF have either, I remember pointing out it was not ticked to my partner when I recieved it, and like I said even if it was then I cant see how they can say I recieved advice on the terms and conditions of the PPI on that date because my lender had not even been arranged at that point. I guess its reassuring that you have not heard of this but I could easily have let it go and accepted the letter, that is what concerns me most!

I will call the FSCS tomorrow and request a photo copy of the document that they have in their possession to help should I need it, but I presume an investigation will take place when they have are in reciept of the copy from EPF.

[Bill-K]

Re: FSCS... Can I trust them? Tampering with my documents.

Hi Wishy100, and welcome to you. As M. Leclerc suggests, we need to get stuff down in writing, now. Phone calls are no good, as the content can be denied. If a document has been tampered with, then I believe we have a possible case of fraud. Accounts of telephone convo's will probably not be helpful. WRITTEN evidence is paramount.

Give FSCS as much rope as they need, and play the gullible jerk (which I KNOW you ain't - as you've taken the trouble to 'read up' on this stuff before posting). This is the first I have heard of FSCS apparently trying to forge documents, and it is interesting - although not surprising.

[di30]

Re: FSCS... Can I trust them? Tampering with my documents.

Hi there

I had a case via EPF, with mine the broker was Click Finance who sold it and they sent the information to EPF for the application.

However, on my actual application we did not tick/cross for PPI, it appeared that it was added to the loan agreement by EPF later in the application.

I agree with both Leclerc and Bilk, everything is better in writing, this way you have something to fall back on as your evidence, keep copies of all you send and receive ;-)

[wishy100]

Re: FSCS... Can I trust them? Tampering with my documents.

Hello, thanks for your advice.

I'm sure they are aware of the implications of this and as such will not send me a copy of what they have!! Infact it will probably conveniently go missing! I have a name of someone who is dealing with this for me now and he showed genuine concern but the stance that I take with this now could be important to the outcome of my claim, Im hoping that they will recieve the documents from EPF, realise what has happened and the severity of it as far as fraud is concerned then quickly accept my claim and hope that I go away....

All I want is for it to be settled fairly but unfortunately this is not clearly not the case here!

If I call and start complaining and shouting fraud I dont think it will help so I will play the gullible jerk as you suggest and see how it goes, maybe requesting the document is not a wise idea?

[wishy100]

Re: FSCS... Can I trust them? Tampering with my documents.

Hello Di, thanks for the reply.

Yes very similar circumstances, Norton Finance sold me the PPI, and the document that is in question here was the initial application to Norton... not to EPF who later added the PPI! So the date of the Norton application was signed 7th Jan 2005.. only 7 days before the cut off date for the FSCS, this is so obvious that it again concerns me about the FSCS'S agenda and sincerity in ensuring I am compensated fairly, they had this document for 4 months before realising the date on it was out of their jurisdiction, and when they did notice the date they failed to realise that no PPI had been agreed or signed for, even if it had it been crossed it would have only been an indication that I was interested in cover not accepting it! The whole thing is leading me to believe they are looking for excuses not to compensate. Very frustrating!

[di30]

Re: FSCS... Can I trust them? Tampering with my documents.

Hello Di, thanks for the reply.

Yes very similar circumstances, Norton Finance sold me the PPI, and the document that is in question here was the initial application to Norton... not to EPF who later added the PPI! So the date of the Norton application was signed 7th Jan 2005.. only 7 days before the cut off date for the FSCS, this is so obvious that it again concerns me about the FSCS'S agenda and sincerity in ensuring I am compensated fairly, they had this document for 4 months before realising the date on it was out of their jurisdiction, and when they did notice the date they failed to realise that no PPI had been agreed or signed for, even if it had it been crossed it would have only been an indication that I was interested in cover not accepting it! The whole thing is leading me to believe they are looking for excuses not to compensate. Very frustrating!

Hiya and your welcome.

How frustrating and to have hold of of the information for 4 months before letting you know it's not one they can deal with as well!!!

Do you still have your own copy of the application and the agreement?

Mine was a topsy - turvy one really, where usually the broker would arrange the loan and the ppi together, where in my case when we applied we did not ask for the ppi, and it was later added by the lender of EPF themselves.

Because EPF wasnt having any of this, I was so happy to have had the copy of the information, and EPF although a lender when they received both of these copies to prove it was them and not the broker in this case, and it was not even FSA regulated either, they finally paid up, so I would advise if this happened to you, to do the same and make them aware that it was them and not the other by highlighting the copies you have.

How long ago did you start the complaint before it went to the FSCS?

[wishy100]

Re: FSCS... Can I trust them? Tampering with my documents.

Unfortunately I had none of the original documents, but I called EPF using an old letter they had sent on the off chance that I had paid PPI and as it turned out it was the only loan out of MANY that had PPI attached to it, I was advised in september 2012 by EPF during the first phonecall that I paid £595 upfront but it was arranged with Norton finance and EPF then pointed me in the direction of the FSCS. EPF have since been very helpful and supplied all documents and answered many queries without any problems. Norton apparently arranged my insurance through a company called Hamilton Insurance. The documents that I am in possession of are the initial Norton application as stated above and the credit agreement with EPF. EPF have been very forthcoming with these documents. Is any of this familiar to you and do you think EPF could be passing blame onto Norton?... if that is at all possible?

[di30]

Re: FSCS... Can I trust them? Tampering with my documents.

Hi

As Norton arranged the ppi with your loan, then Yes it is down to Norton, however if your having problems due to the business no longer active and the FSCS are unable to deal with them, then you can always try the insurer as another avenue, and this is the avenue the financial ombudsman suggest if all else fails, as it's likely the insurer/underwriter were FSA regulated. And I can also confirm that I know that Hamilton were FSA regulated in 2004 when I taken out a loan.

I succeeded through the insurer of another case, even though these are not responsible for the sale of the loan, they do have joint liabilities.

I can message you my letter I used if you wish to take the insurer/underwriter avenue as another option if you wish to? let me know cheers.

The matter here of complaining to the insurer is the wording of the letter, so basically you are not holding the full responsibility on them, but are stating the fact that they do have liabilities and responsibilities to the customer to ensure the insurance was suitable before it was allowed to go through as such.

Let me know if you want a copy of my letter, that may help you to pursue your insurer, you will just need to tweak it to your requirements, cheers ;-)

[wishy100]

Re: FSCS... Can I trust them? Tampering with my documents.

Hi

As Norton arranged the ppi with your loan, then Yes it is down to Norton, however if your having problems due to the business no longer active and the FSCS are unable to deal with them, then you can always try the insurer as another avenue, and this is the avenue the financial ombudsman suggest if all else fails, as it's likely the insurer/underwriter were FSA regulated. And I can also confirm that I know that Hamilton were FSA regulated in 2004 when I taken out a loan.

I succeeded through the insurer of another case, even though these are not responsible for the sale of the loan, they do have joint liabilities.

I can message you my letter I used if you wish to take the insurer/underwriter avenue as another option if you wish to? let me know cheers.

The matter here of complaining to the insurer is the wording of the letter, so basically you are not holding the full responsibility on them, but are stating the fact that they do have liabilities and responsibilities to the customer to ensure the insurance was suitable before it was allowed to go through as such.

Let me know if you want a copy of my letter, that may help you to pursue your insurer, you will just need to tweak it to your requirements, cheers ;-)

That is fantastic, I will see how things go with the FSCS.. however, so far they have not given me much hope! And then I will take the route of the insurer, I understand what you are saying about joint liabilty and it makes sense!

Thank you!!

In the mean time watch this space for the outcome of the FSCS claim!

[di30]

Re: FSCS... Can I trust them? Tampering with my documents.

That is fantastic, I will see how things go with the FSCS.. however, so far they have not given me much hope! And then I will take the route of the insurer, I understand what you are saying about joint liabilty and it makes sense!

Thank you!!

In the mean time watch this space for the outcome of the FSCS claim!

LOL your welcome ;-) We will get there somehow, feel free to message me when your ready, and meanwhile I shall keep a check on your thread here. Oh and welcome to LB by the way.

The best of luck ;-)

[wishy100]

Re: FSCS... Can I trust them? Tampering with my documents.

Sorry just an after thought... because of the fraud element in this should I really be reporting it?! Is it that serious??