MBNA Reject My PPI Claim but I feel it is an unfair decision.

[Treester]

Hello,

New here and I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction with regards to sending my response back to MBNA.

Firstly, I had filled out the FOS form for claming back my mis sold PPI. Due to the time when I originally filled in the the Credit agreement, I have no proof of how or what I have signed for.

I later had a call from MBNA asking me to go over some details with regards to my claim, at which time I obviously have no details to hand to answer the questions so I have had to try and give the details that I could remember.

On the 21st of December 2012, MBNA sent me a letter stating that were not upholding my claim for a number of reasons.

1. You stated that in your questionnaire you had other means of making repayments in the event of an accident, sickness or Unemployment, specifically that you had personal savings that you could have used to keep up your repayments in the event that an accident, sickness or unemployment prevented you from working. During our conversation however, i was not persuaded that this alternative could have been relied upon to meet your monthly repayments over a long period if needed. i say this becasue your savings were of a limited value in relation to your annual income, and you would also have needed to use these to keep up repayments on your mortgage/rent and other outgoings.



Now, I'm not sure that statement holds any ground. Firstly, they do not know what my mortgage payments are, if any. Secondly, i have, and have always had critical illness cover with life insurance. had i fallen i'll where i was unable to work, this policy would have kicked in and covered me. Thirdly, I work in a family business and I always have done, I am not self employed but I do work for my father who is the business owner. At the time of taking out the PPI policy, i had worked for the company almost 10 years, so in the event of being made redundant, I would have received a good chunk of redundancy money..


2. You said that the policy was not suitable for your needs. Since no advie was given, our associates were not required to ask whether you had any existing insurance in place, collate any information about your demands, needs and circumstances and nor did we have a duty to ensure that the policy was suitable for you. However, we were required to give you information which was adequate for you to make an informed decision about whether or not you wished to purchase the policy.

Now assuming, the policy documentation was written along the same lines as that response, i suspect the phrase Jargon comes to mind, and it was quite possible that what i did origiinally sign didn't make a whole lot of sense?


These are just some of the responses i've posted, there is a couple more excuses why they are not upholding the claim and I am happy to e-mail a pdf copy to someone who might be able to help.


regards


Lee

[TUTTSI]

Re: MBNA Reject My PPI Claim but I feel it is an unfair decision.

Hi Treester

Welcome to Legal Beagles.

What reason did you originally give for the PPI being mis-sold? I believe the story must start here and not what happened on the phone.

ie... were you self employed, already had another PPI policy, they falsed you to take this as part of the agreement to have the credit card or for some other reason?

Tuttsi

[Treester]

Re: MBNA Reject My PPI Claim but I feel it is an unfair decision.

Tuttsi,

I already had a PPI policy in place with HSBC anyway but also I had Critical illness and Life insurance in place with Legal and General.

Lee

[TUTTSI]

Re: MBNA Reject My PPI Claim but I feel it is an unfair decision.

Lee, you have not made this clear what your reasons were that you gave for mis-selling of your PPI?

Was the reason that you were mis-sold the policy because you already had cover in place?

Was the PPI a condition that they gave you the credit card and had included it?

Were you given the oportunity to turn down the cover at inception?

[Treester]

Re: MBNA Reject My PPI Claim but I feel it is an unfair decision.

There was a thirty day cooling off period apparently, due to the timescale of when i originally signed this, i honestly can't remember the full details of it all.

I'm saying that I didn't need the PPI policy as at the time I worked for a Family business for near on ten years and had i been made redundant i would have had sufficiant funds to see me through for 3 months. had i fallen I'll where i couldnt work for a long period, my critical health cover would have covered my bills and I had also forgotton, My wife became a director of a college in this period and her salary alone would have supported both of us if need be.

At no point did MBNA ask me if i had cover elsewhere or means to pay should I have lost my income. They also claim that the savings i had in place would not have been sufficiant to pay off the card should I have been in that situation, depsite the card being taken on for emergency purchases. What i did have in savings would have more than covered the credit card bill.

In my eyes, they didn't advise me to take out cover, nor did they advise me it was not necessary due to my circumstances and I'm saying because they didn't advise me to not to take it out, i feel i have been mis sold a policy i didnt require.

[TUTTSI]

Re: MBNA Reject My PPI Claim but I feel it is an unfair decision.

PPI Policies do not normally cover people who are self employed or not working. Did you ever read the policy terms and conditions?

MBNA sold you a policy which you had time to reject - in your words the 30 day cooling off period. You must have been aware that they sold it to you at that time from what you are saying.

Were you able to pay your monthly premiums to MBNA when you were not working?

What is your motive now for this PPI policy being mis-sold? I still cannot work out from your answers why you belive this is the case?

In order to receive back the policy payments plus interest, you have to have a really good reason why this policy was mis-sold in the first place. MBNA could not have possibly known that you already had in place an HSBC PPI + a critical illness policy. Advising them this now is not evidence that they mis-sold you a policy that was not necessary to your needs.

Has MBNA ever charged you excessive credit card charges for late payments etc.... you may be able to get some of this back.

Lee, I would re think why you believe that this policy was mis-sold to you as the route you are going I feel will not get you anywhere. The reasons would have to be more positive like if you were self employed or unemployed and the policy would not have covered you or that they would not have paid you out in the event of a claim as you had two policies in force....but you woul;d have to read the policy terms and conditions through to see what or would not have affected you.

There was a thirty day cooling off period apparently, due to the timescale of when i originally signed this, i honestly can't remember the full details of it all.

I'm saying that I didn't need the PPI policy as at the time I worked for a Family business for near on ten years and had i been made redundant i would have had sufficiant funds to see me through for 3 months. had i fallen I'll where i couldnt work for a long period, my critical health cover would have covered my bills and I had also forgotton, My wife became a director of a college in this period and her salary alone would have supported both of us if need be.

At no point did MBNA ask me if i had cover elsewhere or means to pay should I have lost my income. They also claim that the savings i had in place would not have been sufficiant to pay off the card should I have been in that situation, depsite the card being taken on for emergency purchases. What i did have in savings would have more than covered the credit card bill.

In my eyes, they didn't advise me to take out cover, nor did they advise me it was not necessary due to my circumstances and I'm saying because they didn't advise me to not to take it out, i feel i have been mis sold a policy i didnt require.

[Treester]

Re: MBNA Reject My PPI Claim but I feel it is an unfair decision.

Ok, sounds like i need to get a copy of the policy from MBNA.

Obviously i've got to keep going with this as I am sure that somehow i can proove i have been mis sold the policy, its just getting the correct reasons why and giving them evidence of that, all of which isn't going to be straight forward as it was such a long time ago.

[TUTTSI]

Re: MBNA Reject My PPI Claim but I feel it is an unfair decision.

I 100% agree with you Lee, you so far have not convinced me that it was mis-sold so now work on the actual policy and see where and where it would not have covered you in the event of a claim.

I also would send a SAR to MBNA if you do not have your credit card statements going back 6 years requesting certain information so that you can put a claim in for credit card charges as well. They tend to put in extremely high charges and you may get a partial refund on this so would be good to know what is involved so you can get some monies returned to you also let them send to you the original agreement to make sure that complies. The cost of a SAR is £10 which is sent to the data controller and where they have 40+2 days to respond. If they do not fully give you all the answers to your questions under this they will be trouble with the Information Commisioner and they can be fined a lot of money.
http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...charges-HOW-TO
You can follow this thread for the SAR and include on the SAR whatever other information you need in order to qualify your claim. You can also ask for all information which they hold on you whether this be their notes, recorded calls, statements going back 6 years as well as the policy document for PPI etc, etc...

Ok, sounds like i need to get a copy of the policy from MBNA.

Obviously i've got to keep going with this as I am sure that somehow i can proove i have been mis sold the policy, its just getting the correct reasons why and giving them evidence of that, all of which isn't going to be straight forward as it was such a long time ago.

[TUTTSI]

Re: MBNA Reject My PPI Claim but I feel it is an unfair decision.

Lee
I have been doing some research for you and have some of the FSA rules which you may find helpful in your claim with your PPI claim. One of our members posted this up yesterday for someone else and I immediately thought of you ( Thanks Bill K). You should still do the SAR and together with this information below no doubt we will find a FSA ruling or two that will get your PPI settled.

Basically, following a Consultation Paper CP 10/6, the FSA brought out Policy Statement PS 10/12 back in August 2010 in order to impose some sense following the PPI mis-selling scandal. Contained within this at Appendices 1 & 2 is the PPI Redress Handbook. Appendix 1 is often known as 'DISP APP 3,' and it contains the FSA Rules regarding PPI Redress Procedure. Appendix 2 contains 'worked examples' of how to implement the Rules in calculating PPI redress. If you disregard the rest of PS10/12, and concentrate on Appendices 1 and 2, then you will be streets ahead of the other monkeys who are clearly not being properly trained. I thus applaud you for taking the trouble - and having the guts and initiative - to ask us guys in here. We could do with more guys like you "across the counter."

I have boiled DISP APP 3 down to a 'core' set of para's, which I find are constantly being needed as 'reminders' to the banks - who are either genuinely ignorant of them, or are studiously ignoring them. I daresay that you will be encouraged to ignore these, too !!!

" The FSA Handbook on PPI Redress contained within PS 10/12 statesISP APP 3.2.1 The firm should consider, in the light of all the information provided by the complainant and otherwise already held by or available to the firm, whether there was a breach or failing by the firm.
DISP APP 3.2.2 The firm should seek to establish the true substance of the complaint, rather than taking a narrow interpretation of the issues raised, and should not focus solely on the specific expression of the complaint. This is likely to require an approach to complaint handling that seeks to clarify the nature of the complaint.
DISP APP 3.2.3 A firm may need to contact a complainant directly to understand fully the issues raised, even where the firm received the complaint from a third party acting on the complainant's behalf. The firm should not use this contact to delay the assessment of the complaint.
DISP APP 3.2.7 The firm should consider all of its sales of payment protection contracts to the complainant in respect of re-financed loans that were rolled up into the loan covered by the payment protection contract that is the subject of the complaint. The firm should consider the cumulative financial impact on the complainant of any previous breaches or failings in those sales.
DISP APP 3.3.1 Where a complaint is made, the firm should assess the complaint fairly, giving appropriate weight and balanced consideration to all available evidence, including what the complainant says and other information about the sale that the firm identifies. The firm is not expected automatically to assume that there has been a breach or failing.
DISP APP 3.3.2 The firm should not rely solely on the detail within the wording of a policy's terms and conditions to reject what a complainant recalls was said during the sale.
DISP APP 3.3.3 The firm should recognise that oral evidence may be sufficient evidence and not dismiss evidence from the complainant solely because it is not supported by documentary proof. The firm should take account of a complainant's limited ability fully to articulate his complaint or to explain his actions or decisions made at the time of the sale.
DISP APP 3.3.4 Where the complainant's account of events conflicts with the firm's own records or leaves doubt, the firm should assess the reliability of the complainant's account fairly and in good faith. The firm should make all reasonable efforts (including by contact with the complainant where necessary) to clarify ambiguous issues or conflicts of evidence before making any finding against the complainant.
DISP APP 3.3.5 The firm should not reject a complainant's account of events solely on the basis that the complainant signed documentation relevant to the purchase of the policy.
DISP APP 3.3.9 In determining a particular complaint, the firm should (unless there are reasons not to because of the quality and plausibility of the respective evidence) give more weight to any specific evidence of what happened during the sale (including any relevant documentation and oral testimony) than to general evidence of selling practices at the time (such as training, instructions or sales scripts or relevant audit or compliance reports on those practices).
DISP APP 3.7.2 Where the firm concludes that the complainant would not have bought the payment protection contract he bought, and the firm is not using the alternative approach to redress (set out in DISP App 3.7.7 E to 3.7.15 E) or other appropriate redress (see DISP App 3.8), the firm should, as far as practicable, put the complainant in the position he would have been if he had not bought any payment protection contract.
DISP APP 3.9.1 Where the complainant’s loan or credit card is in arrears the firm may, if it has the contractual right to do so, make a payment to reduce the associated loan or credit card balance, if the complainant accepts the firm’s offer of redress. The firm should act fairly and reasonably in deciding whether to make such a payment.
DISP APP 3.9.4 The firm should make any offer of redress to the complainant in a fair and balanced way. In particular, the firm should explain clearly to the complainant the basis for the redress offered including how any compensation is calculated and, where relevant, the rescheduling of the loan, and the consequences of accepting the offer of redress. "

Keep the rest of DISP APP 3 handy.

As regards the examples in Appendix 2, the ones I think you need to REALLY get a grasp of are Examples 6 and 8. The FSA doesn't even understand them, IMO. The banks certainly don't - despite their vast resources. WE DO.

[Treester]

Re: MBNA Reject My PPI Claim but I feel it is an unfair decision.

Some excellent advice notes there, especially 3.2.2 and 3.3.3 as i feel the case i am currently going through hasn't been delbt with fairly or either in detail.

I've sent off for the SAR, so as soon as i get that back i shall be going through it with a fine tooth comb, otherwise i will be drafting a letter to the FOS (i assume this is the route i need to take now?) outlining my position at the time, highlighting those points above.

Many thanks for your help, I shall keep you posted!

Lee

[Treester]

Re: MBNA Reject My PPI Claim but I feel it is an unfair decision.

Just a quick update. Still no reply from MBNA but i have just got off the phone to HSBC to see where my claim process status is and they have told me a letter has been sent out to me with a settlement figure of £11,732.46p.

I had to ask them three times if that was correct - i'll be more confident when the letter arrives.

That particular account i had with HSBC, i've had for 17 years and not used the card in the last 7, so it just goes to show that its worth chasing up everything!

[d1anne]

Re: MBNA Reject My PPI Claim but I feel it is an unfair decision.

Just a quick update. Still no reply from MBNA but i have just got off the phone to HSBC to see where my claim process status is and they have told me a letter has been sent out to me with a settlement figure of £11,732.46p.

I had to ask them three times if that was correct - i'll be more confident when the letter arrives.

That particular account i had with HSBC, i've had for 17 years and not used the card in the last 7, so it just goes to show that its worth chasing up everything!

WOW:cheer2: what a result, congratulations for your perseverance, as you said it just goes to prove that chasing up and being persistent CAN and does work....... Im a bit like your self though believe it is true when you receive the letter........

[TUTTSI]

Re: MBNA Reject My PPI Claim but I feel it is an unfair decision.

Well lets hope they have given you the correct amount of interest - but that is a hell of a lot of money - which they mis-sold you PPI in the first place. Fingers crossed that the letter will arrive on your door mat anytime soon. Now go after MBNA and don't give up... you have the rules use them.

Just a quick update. Still no reply from MBNA but i have just got off the phone to HSBC to see where my claim process status is and they have told me a letter has been sent out to me with a settlement figure of £11,732.46p.

I had to ask them three times if that was correct - i'll be more confident when the letter arrives.

That particular account i had with HSBC, i've had for 17 years and not used the card in the last 7, so it just goes to show that its worth chasing up everything!

[Treester]

Re: MBNA Reject My PPI Claim but I feel it is an unfair decision.

I'm not just going to chase MBNA, i'm now hot on the heels of Black Horse Finance for 2 cars i've bought through them, Egg Credit Card and last but not least Halifax for bank charges, although I no longer use the Halifax account, I had left it open with 98 pence in the account, so it should make getting the information on that one a lot easier!

[Treester]

Re: MBNA Reject My PPI Claim but I feel it is an unfair decision.

Quick update, my letter arrived yesterday so I'm off down the bank lunchtime with my ID to confirm who I am so i can start the process of getting back my money!