Newbie needs help: ppi claim denied by Halifax

[lucie29]

Hiya, I am new to this site and am hoping for some advice as my ppi claim to Halifax has just been denied...
In 2004 I took out an unsecured loan with Halifax (loan was for a new car) The loan amount was for £5000 over 66 months. I was led to believe that in order to be approved for the loan, i would need PPI (due to my age, 21) An insurance loan was added to my cash loan for £1234.77. So my credit agreement shows as follows:
cash loan:£5000
total credit charge for cash loan: £1543.90
total amount for cash loan: £6543.90
Insurance loan: £1234.77
credit charge for for insurance loan: £381.57
total amount for insurance loan: £1616.34
66 payments of £123.64 ...... Annual % rate 9.9% ............ total amount to pay: £8160.24. *it says that they will use the insurance loan to pay the provider of personal loan repayments cover, and that they will divide my monthly payments between the cash and insurance loans.

I downloaded a ppi consumer questionnaire from the Halifax website. My reasons for complaint were as follows:
1) I was not told the ppi was optional. 2) I was led to believe i would not be approved for the loan without ppi. 3) I was not given any payment options for the ppi, it was just added to the loan charging me interest to do so. (when replying Halifax re-worded my 3rd complaint to this: the ppi was added to the quote automatically without asking if you wanted or needed it)
Their reply was: It has never been a requirement to take out a ppi policy for a loan application to be accepted. Taking ppi out would not have improved the chances of the application being accepted. I am also aware that the customer credit agreement clearly demonstrated to you that ppi was optional and conclude the adviser did not mislead you. I therefore come to the conclusion that you were made aware of the optional nature. The customer credit agreement is the document i signed with the payment details listed on it (as stated above)?? if so this says nothing about the ppi being optional or am i missing something?? Also no mention of MY 3rd complaint of the insurance loan being added to my cash loan.
4) I was not told ppi could be purchased elsewhere - their reply: there were no other policies to consider or offer you. I am also aware that only where practical to do so we would have taken steps to identify your needs. We would have ensured we put you in a position to make an informed choice about the insurance you was buying. When considering the policy documents provided to you, i can conclude that we did supply you with sufficient information to make an informed decision whether the policy met your personal needs. It cannot therefore be concluded that the information and disclosure given were inappropriate in the circumstances
5) I was misled /provided with inaccurate information - their reply: The information in your sales documents about the ppi policy was accurate. The policy booklet and welcome pack outlined the terms and conditions of the policy. The adviser was able to access this information during the time of your sale and was trained to understand the benefits and limitations allowing them to provide you with an accurate representation of the policy features, putting you in a position to make an informed decision about the product. Just because the sales person could access this info does not mean that he did!
conclusion: I am of the opinion that the sale was clear, fair and not misleading. My review has not highlighted any failing with the sale that would lead me to believe your decision to purchase ppi would have changed.

The sales adviser also sold me Bill Protector at the same time which he said i would need, and i thought it was something to do with my loan. When I paid my loan off early (2008 instead of the expiry date 2010) i noticed i was still being charged for the bill protector... this is when i questioned it and was told the bill protector was for utility bills such as gas, electric water ect.... at the time i lived at home with my parents and had no utility bills - i didnt even pay rent.... my loan and mobile phone were my only bills!

Is it worth appealing against their decision? Sorry for the long post, but wanted to make sure all info was available. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Lucie :tinysmile_grin_t:

[Inca]

Re: Newbie needs help: ppi claim denied by Halifax

Hi Lucie and to LegalBeagles,,someone will be along to help you with your questions shortly

[Bill-K]

Re: Newbie needs help: ppi claim denied by Halifax

Hi Lucie and welcome to you. The lenders now seem to be using more sophisticated 'fob-off' letters to throw PPI claimants off the scent. I would definitely keep at them about this. They will often back down and pay up if you persevere - and it's much better to completely exhaust this before referring the claim to the FOS.

I recently used the attached letter with a HBOS PPI claim that was rejected initially, and it resulted in a £1000 payout. If you can use it - or parts of it - then hopefully it might work for you. BUT - don't just copy it - you must tailor it to suit your own circumstances.

I would also reclaim the Bill Protector, as that seems to have been mis-sold, too.

I never recommend using mis-selling reason (4) unless it is the only reason you are using. Some lenders will use this to make a reduced payout known as 'Alternative Redress,' which is based on the assumed difference between what you were charged for this PPI and what you WOULD have been charged if you bought the PPI elsewhere.

I hope this helps. Keep it going !!!

[lucie29]

Re: Newbie needs help: ppi claim denied by Halifax

Hi Bill, Thank you for your quick response.
The lenders "fob off" letters are very good as i was starting to wonder whether there was any point. It is nice to have someone else's opinion. Thank you for the letter you attached I will definitely re-word and use some of it. Can I just confirm, is the loan I described what is called a front loaded ppi loan? (want to use correct terminology) If I had actually wanted the ppi, given the choice I could have paid it off all at once as I had the money from the sale of my old car (£1500)!!
Also do you know which form I would need to reclaim the bill protector or am I better off just writing a letter and sending it to Halifax?

Many Thanks
Lucie

[Bill-K]

Re: Newbie needs help: ppi claim denied by Halifax

Glad I was of use, Lucie. Yes, it's known as a 'front-loaded' PPI premium - or as 'Single Premium Insurance' ('SPI')

Personally, I would add the 'Bill Protector' to the claim you are making. You could add summat to the letter on the lines of "I have now had the opportunity to take further advice on this, and I realise that the 'Bill Protector' insurance was also mis-sold. I am therefore now adding this to the claim I am making."

If Halifax have called this their final response, then we might need to add a bit more to get them to respond. Let me know if that is the case.

[lucie29]

Re: Newbie needs help: ppi claim denied by Halifax

Hi Bill,
Happy New Year

I have just received a letter from Halifax stating that although my new information adds some useful further background, they are still unable to agree that the ppi was mis-sold to me and therefore they cant agree to uphold my complaint. It says that they have done a full review of my complaint and have considered whether the ppi was suitable and whether I was eligible. It says that they have looked at my complaint as a whole to ensure that they acted fairly towards me during the ppi sale, giving appropriate weight and balanced consideration to all available evidence. They confirm that they did not identify any other issues when reviewing my file..... They list the following:

When you replied to us you stated:
*You were led to believe that you could not get the loan/credit without taking the ppi
*You were led to believe that taking out the ppi would improve your chances of getting the loan/credit
*You were not asked if you had existing means of protecting your loan

The letter I sent to Halifax (which the above is a response to) stated that i didn't agree with their decision not to uphold my complaint. I told them that although they say it has never been a requirement to take out a ppi policy in order for the loan to be accepted, does not mean that the advisor did not portray it to be a requirement. I said that neither my options or the small print were explained to me clearly, and that i was not asked any questions with regards to company sick pay or any savings I may have had. I said that the customer credit agreement does show the cost of the ppi but nowhere on there does it show the ppi to be optional (as in their first reply to my complaint they said that the customer credit agreement clearly demonstrated to me that the ppi was optional.)

In their first reply to my complaint they changed the wording of one of my complaints.... My complaint was that the ppi was added to my personal loan incurring two lots of interest and that I was not given any payment options for the ppi. They changed the complaint to 'The ppi was automatically added to the quote without asking if you wanted or needed it' In my letter I pointed out this out to them. However again there is no mention of this in the letter I have just received this morning!

The letter says that I can contact her directly on the details at the top of the letter and that if they do not hear from me they will consider it resolved and close my complaint. They included a FOS complaints booklet again.

I would really appreciate any advise on what you think i should do next. It is so frustrating that they are making this decision based on there opinions and how they believe ppi's were sold. They were not there during the sale.... If all the sales advisers followed company procedure during the sale of ppi then surely there would be no ppi claim backs!!

Kind regards
Lucie.... *p.s. I mentioned the bill protector in my letter and that has now been passed on to the correct dept.

[Bill-K]

Re: Newbie needs help: ppi claim denied by Halifax

Hi Lucie, and a Happy New Year to you, too !!!

This seems to have become a trend with the lenders. I believe the FSA Rules quoted in the letter clearly show that their explanations are not acceptable, and if they had genuinely carried out a review of their decision, then this should have become clear. You could try making a complaint to the CEO's office, but that is not something I can advise on myself. I will ask Di30 and Turboman to step in, as this is likely to be more their area of expertise.

[di30]

Re: Newbie needs help: ppi claim denied by Halifax

Hi Lucie and cheers Bill ;-)

I agree with Bill.
It appears that Halifax are one of those banks that send rejections without giving good reasons, despite the fact you had a right to complain and make a reclaim on the reasons you had for being mis sold.

I also agree that it may be a good idea to write/email the CEO and make them aware that you don't feel your complaint has been taken seriously by the complaints department, and you want this case to be re-visited. You can of course send a copy to the complaints team to make them aware that you have included the CEO on the letter.
However, it's unlikely the CEO will get in touch with you directly, but he will be in the picture of what is what and that your not happy, obviously, which is the reason why you have wrote to him.

And from there, the CEO should forward the information on to the complaints section and confirm you have been in touch about this matter, and you want it looked into again.

Do not give in at this stage, but was that the final decision?

[Bill-K]

Re: Newbie needs help: ppi claim denied by Halifax

Thanks, Di - I knew you'd have some good stuff to say. Sorry to have 'dumped' you with it. I'm just not 'up to it,' right now.

Bless ya !!!

XXX

Lucie - you're in good hands. This gal is good !!!

[di30]

Re: Newbie needs help: ppi claim denied by Halifax

Thanks, Di - I knew you'd have some good stuff to say. Sorry to have 'dumped' you with it. I'm just not 'up to it,' right now.

Bless ya !!!

XXX

Lucie - you're in good hands. This gal is good !!!

Your very welcome Bill ;-)

Hey you not dumped me with it lol, glad to help when I can, and yes have a rest, you deserve it ;-) Speak soon xxx

[lucie29]

Re: Newbie needs help: ppi claim denied by Halifax

Thank you Bill, I very much appreciate the advice you have given.

Hello Di

The letter didn't say that it was the final response... It said I could contact her directly and included the FOS booklet should I want to take it further.

How would I go about finding the CEO contact details?

When I write to the CEO do you think I should word it stronger and tell him I feel as though I am being fobbed off. Also on both occasions I have complained about the fact the ppi was front loaded however on both occasions Halifax have failed to acknowledge this complaint... Which in my opinion is reason enough to complain. I paid my loan off two years early but still paid the full ppi due to it being front loaded! Is there any possible reason you know of why Halifax are avoiding this complaint.... Should I emphasise more on this?

Sorry for all the questions Di.... Feel as though I'm hitting my head against a brick wall where Halifax are concerned. I really appreciate your help

kind regards
Lucie

[di30]

Re: Newbie needs help: ppi claim denied by Halifax

Hiya hun

I will try to check the CEO for this business, been having problems with connections because of further snow in South Wales :-( LOL, will do my best to find out. On another thread, another poster is also dealing with Halifax for being fobbed off just like you, and personally I really dont think they look at the complaints properly.

I would certainly write back to the complaints dept, and if you wish to include the CEO that is up to you, or just write back to complaints for now and if they fail you again, then write to the CEO.

And yes stand your ground, tell them you feel they not investigated your complaint properly, they have obviously overlooked it, and you are requesting they review the case with the reasons you have that are genuine, and have grounds to make a reclaim on the PPI.
Tell them the fact that you were sold a front loaded policy, it was not explained to you of the full cost of the PPI, which is important that it should have been made clear to you, of the full cost etc....

Anything else that applies to you as well, let them know.

Good luck and meanwhile I will do my best to check the CEO for the business, although I did assume it was the same CEO as Lloyds for being under the same umbrella, but could be mistaken, so best to check just in case.

Di
Xx

[lucie29]

Re: Newbie needs help: ppi claim denied by Halifax

Hiya Di.... On a positive note I have just received an offer from Halifax for the Mis-sold bill protector :cheer2:

Should I mention this in my letter as both the loan ppi and the bill protector were sold to me by the same person.... The fact he Mis-sold one may help my case in proving he Mis-sold the other?

hope you stay safe in the bad weather you are experiencing

b.rgds
Lucie x

[di30]

Re: Newbie needs help: ppi claim denied by Halifax

Hey well done Lucie

Great work!!!!! Yes no harm done by doing that, it would certainly make them think again, you could enclose a photocopy of the successful decision letter if you want to.

Weather been horredous, here, with the heavy snow from last Friday, its been on and off ever since, so not thawed out much, it started again yesterday evening quite heavily, stopped again, then awoke to a further few more inches :-(.
I don't mind as such, but enough is enough me thinks LOL.

Thank you for your kind words and hope the weather's being far kinder to you xx

The best of luck with this case x

[sibila]

Re: Newbie needs help: ppi claim denied by Halifax

Thank you for your advices, I found this very useful.
I`ve just read all this and found that my respond from 3 January 2013 from Halifax bank is the same. it looks like they change only the names on their letters. They do not state anything about my evidence, they have done my letter like copy and paste from the previous letter on the top. They seem have found way how not to deal with complains.
Any idea how to cope with. I still have few days to make respond, they state if they do not hear from me in the next 28 days, they will consider the case as resolved.

Kind regards
Sibila