Ppi virgin MBna non advised

[Flintoff99]

Re: Ppi virgin MBna non advised

Hi Bill

Di put me on to you. Wondering if I could have some advice? I have my sar request from mbna . What should I be looking for?

[di30]

Re: Ppi virgin MBna non advised

Hi

Bill if it's ok to go through this with Flintoff99 when you have 5 mins please.

I am wondering if everything that should have arrived has not, that should have been included.

Thanks hun.

[Flintoff99]

Re: Ppi virgin MBna non advised

It's a large pack with lots of screen shots from databases with short hand that I can't decipher

[Bill-K]

Re: Ppi virgin MBna non advised

Hi Flintoff. This is never a simple job. A lot of the DSAR data is difficult to understand without an explanation. You SHOULD have received such an explanation, as that is part of the lender's obligation. Having said that, it is still no easy task to grasp what all the different screenshots are. I'm no expert at DSAR's, but in my meagre experience a lot of the data is no use to us for claiming PPI refunds, and we need to filter it if we can.

The first thing I suggest is that you separate out the copies of monthly account statements which I assume you have. We don't need these just yet - but may need them later. However, if these appear to go back exactly 6 years, and no more, then it may be worth tackling them about this, as they often seem to limit their data search to just 6 years when in fact they have data going back before then. They are NOT allowed to withold data over 6 years old if they still have it on record. So - we may need to remind them of this, and to get their written confirmation that there is no further data available. This may be useful if we have to estimate the claim quantum later. Putting them on the spot can often get them to 'cough up' more data, as I'm sure Di will know. We must try and keep the DSAR separate from the PPI claim, if we can - even though they are both linked here - because compliance with the Data Protection Act (DPA) is legally enforceable - and legally has nothing whatsoever to do with the claim for mis-sold PPI.

That's the DSAR. More to follow, if I may.

[Flintoff99]

Re: Ppi virgin MBna non advised

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I opened my account in 2008 and I have data from this point. There is a glossary included, but it doesn't help. I do have a record of my PPI payments- around 600 quid. It looks as though there was an internet sale. I made a few phone calls around the time - I may have discussed PPI at this time. I can't remember exactly. However there is no transcript of the phone call.

Thanks again
D

[Bill-K]

Re: Ppi virgin MBna non advised

Well done for keeping your own records, Flintoff. You could try for copy of any telecons, but they usually say they delete them after a short time "in line with DPA requirements." If you have your own copy of the application and/or agreement, then it may be worth comparing this with any such copies sent with your data. Basically, you need to go through the data and try and identify what it is. I agree, the glossary is not usually a great help. Basically, look for any data that appears to contradict what they have told you so far - or contradicts what you believe to be true. A lot of the screenshots are just account status, but you might find key questions such as "advised/non-advised sale ?" or "Insurance ?"

It's tedious, and you have to go through it quickly at first, to familiarise yourself with the different 'batches' of info, then focus on what may be the most useful or easily-understood batches. If you find anything that seems dubious, then by all means post a redacted scan of it here for us to take a look at. There may well be nothing in the data that we can use - but we have to try and sift through it.

It certainly seems as though this was an internet sale. Think about your circumstances at the date of this sale. What PC were you using ? Would you still have any record of this sale on that PC ? Would you have wanted or needed PPI at that time ? Were you employed/self-employed ? Etc., etc., etc. You have to be a bit 'forensic' and think laterally, because very often the DSAR data may not give you the proof, but it may give you the clues you need to find the proof.

However - if, in the end, all you appear to have is their refusal to uphold based on a ticked PPI box, then I think we need to remind them of the FSA rules and DISP APP 3.3.5 in particular. You could now take this straight to the FOS, but you will need to read up on PPI reclaiming, as you will need to have a good idea of what you are doing:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ASE-READ-FIRST

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...hrough-the-FOS

The FOS will handle the claim for you, but you will need to provide them with the essential documentation - I prefer to suggest this as a last resort, though, as it is taking a VERY long time for FOS to deal with claims (several months minimum). You could write back to remind them that their response is not acceptable as a final response, as it is clearly contrary to the FSA rules, and that your claim is not being dealt with properly or fairly. It may be worth copying the CEO's office in to this, now, as that can sometimes get them to take a bit more notice of you. Di might be able to advise on this, as she favours the "CEO Approach." I have used this letter recently, which you might like to adapt to your own circs. It basically turns the tables and puts the onus on them to PROVE that the PPI was NOT mis-sold - as opposed to their tired old "We were unable to find any evidence of mis-selling."
" In response to my letter of complaint concerning the above accounts, your letter of XX/XX/12 explained that you were unable to find evidence of mis-selling, and that you were therefore unable to refund the PPI premiums applied because I had apparently ticked the PPI box.

It is my belief that my complaint has not been dealt with properly and fairly under the FSA rules as provided in the Handbook on PPI Redress contained within PS 10/12 - some of which I have attached to this letter. I respectfully but firmly request that you review your earlier decision not to uphold my complaint, and that you now do so in compliance with the FSA rules. I appreciate your time and attention to the task of investigating my claim, but your rejection of my complaint appears to be based solely on your own apparent inability to find any evidence to support my complaint. This is hardly surprising, as I doubt if such evidence would now exist in your records, and if it did, I doubt that you have any incentive to look for it. The evidence that you seem to have ignored in your investigation is the generally accepted view that any PPI product sold in recent years is likely to have been mis-sold for a wide range of reasons - a fact borne out by the very need for PS 10/12 to be drawn up by the FSA in 2010. You have clearly made a very good effort at finding as much documentary evidence as you can to refute my claim, but as DISP. APP. 3 makes clear, most – if not all – of that evidence cannot be relied upon.

Despite the evidence you have produced, there is none that refutes the claim that I - along with many thousands of others - was led to believe that the loan may not be advanced unless I bought the PPI that was being sold along with it. The assertion that I ticked a ‘Yes’ box after having been presented with copious amounts of ‘small print’ is not deemed by the FSA as sufficient evidence to show that mis-selling did not take place. The fact remains that neither my options nor the ‘small print’ terms were explained to me clearly, and that I was effectively misled in the sale of this PPI. It is generally accepted that this is the most likely probability, and the onus is upon you to produce clear evidence to demonstrate otherwise. Despite what I am sure are your commendable efforts, you have failed to do this, as that evidence is conspicuous by its very absence in your correspondence.

I therefore now invite you to review your decision, in the hope that you will be able and willing to do so within fourteen days. If the complaint cannot then be resolved satisfactorily, I will refer it to the FOS which I hope will not be necessary - bearing in mind the considerable cost of doing so, and the time and effort involved. Please also be advised that a copy of this letter has also been sent to the CEO, Mr/Ms XXXXX "

[di30]

Re: Ppi virgin MBna non advised

Hiya
Yes often a decision can be overturned if you include the CEO into the matter, as Billk says if and when you contact the business, make it clear that the CEO will also have received a copy.

(Although the CEO will receive any details you send, they usually pass the information back to the compliant section and ask them to deal with it in an orderly manner) and if it means to change a decision that was previously turned down, if you forwarded some useful info and believe the complaints team may have overlooked your case, the CEO could order that they overturn the decision in your favour.

[Flintoff99]

Re: Ppi virgin MBna non advised

Hi

Thanks to you both for your comprehensive replies.
My argument will be based on the above points plus:

The form is not particularly well laid out. The tick box for the PPI is very close to the box for CPP (I think I'll be looking to get this back at some point) therefore it is easy to confuse the two products.

Secondly when I took out the insurance I was a teacher leaving with my parents- a full time permanent contract. It is very obvious that this product was not necessary at this point.

Thirdly I believe that I spoke to a customer service agent about PPI. Unfortunately there is no record of this - there is a record of a phone call regarding balance transfer. But no transcript. It is possible that this did happen but there was an error with recording keeping.

Further to this of the comms logs states: adv direct number adv ppc during a phone call.
I also called to query CPP



I am hoping that this will be enough evidence to change their minds.
Couple of final questions:
Should I calculate an amount to claim for?
How do I contact the CEO cc: them into an emailed copy or written version?


Thanks again

[Bill-K]

Re: Ppi virgin MBna non advised

Well done, Flintoff - it looks like you have managed to get some useful bits of info from the DSAR data. Your additional points all add to your grounds for claiming, I reckon. CPP has just been declared another insurance scam by the FSA - but although it was widely mis-sold, it normally only comes to a small amount for each claim. So, I would suggest claiming it alongside the PPI. I also recommend reclaiming penalty charges at the same time, as these can often be a direct consequence of the PPI costs.

I never recommend claiming a specific amount, as this can then limit what you may be offered. Best to start calculating what you EXPECT to be offered, and then see what they come up with. The first hurdle which has to be jumped is getting them to admit mis-selling, so concentrate on that first. Then, when the letters are in the post, you can start calculating your claim. I've attached a spreadsheet you can use for this. It has columns for insurance and penalty charges, and it calculates the accumulated account interest charged on these amounts, and any 8% compensatory interest which may be due.

I don't know who the CEO is by name, but write to the CEO at the Head Office address - or the Registered Office address - as shown on official letters etc. Send a copy of the letter(s) you are sending to the PPI or Customer relations depts, but enclose a covering letter addressed to the CEO briefly explaining your problem. Di might know who the CEO is by name - or you might be able to google it. If you can do this by email, then I think that would be good.

[stc2012]

Re: Ppi virgin MBna non advised

Hi all,

This information is fantastic. I have already had one successful claim with MBNA but they are dragging their heals with the other one. Similar situation as the above with regards to the tick box online but they have enclosed a copy of the credit agreement showing that the box has been ticked. Apparently, "during the internet sales process you experienced, information about Payment Protection Insurance appeared on a separate screen to your credit card application. It would have been clear from this separate screen that the Payment Protection Insurance was a distinct product from the credit card. In addition, you were offered a option to tick the box to purchase Payment Protection Insurance. The option to tick the box would have ,ade it clear to you that you could choose whether or not to purchase PPI. Given that you ticked the box, I am satisfied that you actively chose to purchase PPI and understood that it was optional when you did so. "

Again this is classed as a non-advised sale and they are not willing to uphold the claim.

I am thinking of going down the SAR route as above. Do you have a letter that I can send them with my £10.

Then we can begin to filter out the information enclosed. I do not recall seeing this and I know that my computer at the time (no longer in posession of it) had a very sofisticated ANTI VIRUS that would have blocked pop ups.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Thanks in advance,

S

[Flintoff99]

Re: Ppi virgin MBna non advised

Hi Stu

I am DMed Di and she gave me the letter. Very helpful too

MBNA replied via CEO route - unfortunately they replied and stand by there original decision. I guess I now have no option to take the FOS route. Bit scared about that, not sure how to go about it.

Also slightly annoyed that their second letter only took into account a few of the points I made

[olekingcole]

Re: Ppi virgin MBna non advised

How are you getting on with the FOS route? Please keep us posted, I am in the same boat with Lloyds and am about to start my claim. The information here has been amazingly useful in helping me understand the mind-boggling claim process.