HSBC taking me to court over loan which has PPI- how to defend?

[zhanzhibar]

Back in 01/03/06, I took a loan with HSBC for £15k. Having looked again at the copy of the agreement, I now realised that I also signed for a personal loan protetion plan loan for £5150. Is personal loan protection plan= PPI? I am not sure. What I am quite sure is that at the time, I wasn't allowed to take that loan without the personal protection loan. In total I owed £20,150 and with interest of 10.9% total amount payable is £30,288.

I have been paying off the loan as per the agreement till 2 years ago when I wrote to them to ask if they freeze the interest & I am paying them less than the agreed amount which they agreed. End of last year my OH decided he had enough and want out so I was struggling a bit with 2 small children and can't afford to pay HSBC the small amount we agreed as there are other secured loan (mortgage) took priority.

Now I received a claimed form (dated 06/06/12) from HSBC under CL Finance taking me to court over the sum of £13,846. I would like to admit to part of the debt but not the PPI so am now trying to put together a part defense. Having said that I am not sure what to put in that defense apart from there's a PPI in this loan and its illegal. I actually do not know how much of that £13,846 is PPI & how much of it is the original loan? So even if I want to part admit what do I put in the amount that I admit to? In that case should I put an acknowledgement of service to defend part of the claim or the whole of the claim and make a counterclaim of PPI against the claimant?


I would really appreciate some advice as to what to do next regarding this PPI please.

Thanks

[Guest]

Re: HSBC taking me to court over loan which has PPI- how to defend?

HI

I take it you have recieved your N1 from the court?

I would acknowledge the claim and say that the sum claimed is disputed subject to a claim for miss-sold PPI. I would download the claim form from the FOS website fill it in and get it off to the creditor.

If the PPI was sold in the manner you describe(conditional to the loan being given) this is sufficient reason for a claim for miss selling.

There are spreadsheets on here and elsewhere were you can work out the amount you are due under your claim, but i would leave the calculation to them in the first instance.

The amount you receive back will be deducted from the default balance, and depends upon how it was paid.
If it was part of the loan and interest was paid on it at the contractual rate , then all that interest will be repayable.

You say you wish to admit liability for part of the sum, if the insurance was compulsory and formed part of the total credit(the amount you borrowed and repaid interest on ), there may be a case for claiming that the agreement was unenforceable, i don't know if you want to explore this further, if you do we would need to see the agreement.

D

[zhanzhibar]

Re: HSBC taking me to court over loan which has PPI- how to defend?

Thanks for responding D. Yes I have received the N1 form. Am thinking how to acknowledge the claim since I don't know the amount but I will acknowledge it online & see whether I can put it as you suggest in your reply. Below is the copy of my agreement. I don't know whther this is PPI but I am quite sure that if I don't take the personal loan protection I will not get the loan I originally applied for. Can someone tell me whether this is a missold PPI and hence I have a reasonable (part) defense?

[zhanzhibar]

Re: HSBC taking me to court over loan which has PPI- how to defend?

Sorry I am having problem using this site & trying to upload. Nobody can see that loan agreement above. Here's my 2nd try

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...Loan-pg1-1.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...C-Loan-pg2.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...C-Loan-pg3.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...C-Loan-pg4.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...C-Loan-pg5.jpg

[Bill-K]

Re: HSBC taking me to court over loan which has PPI- how to defend?

Hi Z.

I don't think you can go far wrong by taking DavyB's advice - even though I don't know the guy from Adam (Yeah, right !!!)

Bottom line is that it seems to me that you have a good claim for mis-sold PPI, and that should be offset against the claim being made against you. You have already sussed that, I think.

The difficult bit can be to determine exactly how much. We will do our best - but it WILL need your effort, too. Can you let us know what data/info you have so far ? We can go from there.

[Guest]

Re: HSBC taking me to court over loan which has PPI- how to defend?

HI


There doesn't seem to be (unless i missed it) anything that says this is optional.

D

[zhanzhibar]

Re: HSBC taking me to court over loan which has PPI- how to defend?

Hi Bill & D, Thanks for responding. I don't have any other info apart from that loan agreement as above and the Claim N1 form. I will scan the Claim form later & put it up here. I have not acknowledge the claim yet as I went on the website last night & moneyclaim ask me to register. I think I have till tomorrow (14days affter 6/6/12) to acknowledge the claim. I have downloaded the PPI claim form from Martin lewis website several months back with the intention to send it to them but have not done anything on it yet which I will now do. I guess the next thing to do is also to send a letter to CL Finance and asking for a breakdown of £13,846. The claim form is a standard claim with no attachement with it detailing the breakdown of £13,846.

[zhanzhibar]

Re: HSBC taking me to court over loan which has PPI- how to defend?

Here is the claim form.http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...CClaim-1-1.jpg

[Bill-K]

Re: HSBC taking me to court over loan which has PPI- how to defend?

It may well be "De Minimis," but the N1 hasn't been signed by hand, and the claim figures don't add up.

....DavyB ?

As regards the PPI, if this has been mis-sold - which looks likely - then I estimate that approx. £7,200 is due to be refunded to you, plus a reduction in the monthly repayment to approx. £235.

[zhanzhibar]

Re: HSBC taking me to court over loan which has PPI- how to defend?

Hi all,

As I do not know how much exactly is the loan and how much is the PPI, I have put on the acknowledgement on the internet that I am defending all of the claim.

Davyb

You say you wish to admit liability for part of the sum, if the insurance was compulsory and formed part of the total credit(the amount you borrowed and repaid interest on ), there may be a case for claiming that the agreement was unenforceable, i don't know if you want to explore this further, if you do we would need to see the agreement.

How do I go about putting the case that the agreemnent is unenforceable?

[Turboman]

Re: HSBC taking me to court over loan which has PPI- how to defend?

Bill--they add up ok--on the claim form---send me our ss btw for this case re the £7200 so i can check it

It may well be "De Minimis," but the N1 hasn't been signed by hand, and the claim figures don't add up.

....DavyB ?

As regards the PPI, if this has been mis-sold - which looks likely - then I estimate that approx. £7,200 is due to be refunded to you, plus a reduction in the monthly repayment to approx. £235.

Zhanzihibar--firstly remove attachment 3 from both posts 3 and 4 as your account number is showing

Secondly--if you are being taken to court for £13,846 -
- then as the ratios of your PPI to Total Loan is around 25.6% ish-(5,150:20,150)
-then (ignoring minor admin fees not given) then it breaks down into -
-Original Cash Advance Loan= £10,301.42 & PPI Loan of £3,544.58

see here--
http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...c-Spreadsheets
The thing to remember is that on your loan the

• Loan Amounts
• The Premiums
• The Outstanding Balance

are always in the ratios 25.64% PPI & 74.4% Cash Advance Loan

Hi all,

As I do not know how much exactly is the loan and how much is the PPI, I have put on the acknowledgement on the internet that I am defending all of the claim.

Davyb

How do I go about putting the case that the agreemnent is unenforceable?

[zhanzhibar]

Re: HSBC taking me to court over loan which has PPI- how to defend?

Thanks for the input,Turboman. Currently using work laptop & can't take out attachment 3 as you mentioned.

Oh dear, as I have put an acknowledgemt that I am defending all, how do I take that back then? I honestly do not know. I also put a similar thread on the legal forum as I desperately really do need advice on how to prepare a defense for this in the next few days. I just do not know where to start and what to say. Militant has kindly offered to help me out on this.

[miliitant]

Re: HSBC taking me to court over loan which has PPI- how to defend?

with two thread going, this is getting confusing, can we please stick to one thread

Oh dear, as I have put an acknowledgemt that I am defending all, how do I take that back then

dont worry on this, you are defending all as a plan of attack is the assignmnet issue from hsbc to cl finance, then notification to you

[mystery1]

Re: HSBC taking me to court over loan which has PPI- how to defend?

It may well be "De Minimis," but the N1 hasn't been signed by hand, and the claim figures don't add up.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2012/544.html


3.10

A legal representative who signs a statement of truth must sign in his own name and not that of his firm or employer.


I would contact them and ask for an extension http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...art15#IDAUXHCC

Agreement extending the period for filing a defence

15.5

(1) The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 days.

(2) Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing.



Get them to agree to 28 days in writing (fax or email) and tell the court. They might umm ahh and refuse however when you tell them they are in breach of practice direction 22 3.10 and that you will make an application to court they'll have costs to pay when they lose the hearing, they'll be a bit more co-operative.

Then get a 31.14 request for document inspection in PDQ !! (i.e tomorrow 3rd July)

M1

[Bill-K]

Re: HSBC taking me to court over loan which has PPI- how to defend?

Apologies. Turbo asked for my calculations, and I don't think I provided them. To save further delay, I've attached a copy of the spreadsheet I used for this.