Hello to one and all

[kevshall]

Hi everybody

Found this site last night.

Hoping to get some advice about dreaded PPI, which I will open a new thread for!!!

[kevshall]

Re: Hello to one and all

Hi

I'm unable to start a new thread so I'll post some of the info in here.

I've received a rejection letter from MBNA citing non-advised sale on the grounds that "we did not offer advice about the policy, we provided you with information only" and "having reviewed our processes and the disclosures we made to you at the time, we are satisfied that you had sufficient information to make your own evaluation about the product on offer."

However, I contacted the FSO and they are happy to pursue this and sending me a complaint form. My claim goes back to 1997, so my application for the card was made over the phone. And as I was a recent graduate, I recall MBNA wanting info about my employer and my student loans.

I posted on another forum and a former MBNA employee has stated they wouldn't have even bothered checking their archived calls, even if they do keep them as far back as 1997. So, I'm wondering how MBNA have actually arrived at this decision.

I'd appreciate any advice while I wait for the FSO form to arrive. Should I contact MBNA and tell them I'm not happy and have referred it to the FSO?

many thanks.

[di30]

Re: Hello to one and all

Hi and welcome to Legal Beagles.

On the letter you received about your complaint they rejected, did they confirm if this was the final decision, and/or did they state that if you can forward further information they will consider reviewing it again?

If they have said its final, they should enclose details of the FOS and to let you know that your eligible to make the complaint to them.

But sometimes they will still even reconsider even if they have provided you with a final decision, so depending if you have anything further to add to your complaint etc etc.......
You can try by writing to them again, tell them you do not agree on the decision they made and why they rejected your complaint and you are requesting they review this further by 14 days.
If you hear nothing by then, or if they did write back but do not change the decision then complain to the FOS.

It is up to you of course, but as soon as you make the complaint to the FOS, the business/bank will be noted of this by the FOS themselves and will look no further.

Hope this helps, but if you feel you may have missed anything, then let them know and ask them to provide you with concrete evidence of why they believe they had to reject your complaint.

Good luck, and please keep us posted, cheers.

[kevshall]

Re: Hello to one and all

Hi Di

The letter - from the assistant VP no less - did state it was their final decision and it also provided details of the FSO.

As stated above, I did speak to the FSO yesterday, gave them a few details, and they said they would pursue it.

I've also had another response from the ex-MBNA employee who thinks that because they would struggle to find account details going that far back, they are probably hoping that I will simply walk away. So for me, the key statement on the letter is: "having reviewed our processes and the disclosures we made to you at the time" because now I'm wondering whether they can show proof that it was actually a non-advised sale via my paperwork, call archives, or the telephone scripts they followed at the time.

[Bill-K]

Re: Hello to one and all

Hi Kevshall, and welcome to you. I agree with what Di says, and would suggest that you ask MBNA to reconsider their decision, before submitting a claim to the FOS. I also think the ex-MBNA employee was right in saying that you were probably not really taken seriously, and given a 'fob-off' letter, in the hope that you would just give up and go away.

I think it may be worth writing to MBNA, saying something like, "I have now taken further advice on this, and consider that your response to my complaint does not follow the guidelines in the PPI Redress Handbook contained in FSA Policy Statement PS 10/12:-

DISP APP 3.2.2 The firm should seek to establish the true substance of the complaint, rather than taking a narrow interpretation of the issues raised, and should not focus solely on the specific expression of the complaint. This is likely to require an approach to complaint handling that seeks to clarify the nature of the complaint.

DISP APP 3.3.1 Where a complaint is made, the firm should assess the complaint fairly, giving appropriate weight and balanced consideration to all available evidence, including what the complainant says and other information about the sale that the firm identifies. The firm is not expected automatically to assume that there has been a breach or failing.

DISP APP 3.3.2 The firm should not rely solely on the detail within the wording of a policy's terms and conditions to reject what a complainant recalls was said during the sale.

DISP APP 3.3.3 The firm should recognise that oral evidence may be sufficient evidence and not dismiss evidence from the complainant solely because it is not supported by documentary proof. The firm should take account of a complainant's limited ability fully to articulate his complaint or to explain his actions or decisions made at the time of the sale.

DISP APP 3.3.4 Where the complainant's account of events conflicts with the firm's own records or leaves doubt, the firm should assess the reliability of the complainant's account fairly and in good faith. The firm should make all reasonable efforts (including by contact with the complainant where necessary) to clarify ambiguous issues or conflicts of evidence before making any finding against the complainant.

DISP APP 3.3.5 The firm should not reject a complainant's account of events solely on the basis that the complainant signed documentation relevant to the purchase of the policy.

DISP APP 3.3.9 In determining a particular complaint, the firm should (unless there are reasons not to because of the quality and plausibility of the respective evidence) give more weight to any specific evidence of what happened during the sale (including any relevant documentation and oral testimony) than to general evidence of selling practices at the time (such as training, instructions or sales scripts or relevant audit or compliance reports on those practices).

I think if you do this, then MBNA will realise that you are serious about your claim, and that you - and the FOS - will expect THEM to take it seriously.

It costs them £850 if the complaint is referred to the FOS - whether you win or not - and can also involve additional compensation. They may make a bit more effort to look into your claim.

Do you have your own records of the account (ie., agreement, statements, etc.) - or have you sent them a Data Subject Access Request (DSAR) ?

[kevshall]

Re: Hello to one and all

Bill

Thanks for your response. I'm not sure I still have the original agreement as I've moved around a bit. I haven't sent a DSAR yet as I'm trying to get as much info together. Would they keep records that far back, because at no point in the letter does it refer to my actual account in terms of paperwork, etc?

[Bill-K]

Re: Hello to one and all

If you are trying to get info together, then a DSAR would be an important consideration, I think. If you have sent in a claim already - without getting the necessary info together first - then I guess you now have to "Put your money where your mouth is."

Although you should at least expect a sympathetic view of your claim, the bottom line is that - if you have no evidence, then you have no claim. You must gather the evidence first. Alas, you claimed first - thereby showing the opponent your cards.

We may be at a disadvantage, now, but all is not lost, I'm sure. Have a good read of the PPI section, and you'll be in a better position to deal with this.

[kevshall]

Re: Hello to one and all

Bill

What will the DSAR actually show apart from how much PPI I was paying? I've also read they're not legally obliged to send anything older than 6 years. Is that true?

[Bill-K]

Re: Hello to one and all

They are obliged to send you ALL relevant data which they hold on you. This often goes back further than 6 years, but they will usually only send you the past 6 years, because they can usually get away with it.

Problem is....if we have already sent them a claim, then they will possibly "lose/delete" any older data anyway, as they will have been forewarned. Nevertheless, if you are trying to assemble your data, then a DSAR should be sent, IMHO.

[kevshall]

Re: Hello to one and all

Received a letter from FOS advising that MBNA will be making me an offer as a gesture of goodwill.

[di30]

Re: Hello to one and all

Great news Kev, well done!

[kevshall]

Re: Hello to one and all

Many thanks! MBNA now have 10 weeks to come up with a figure. But I have to say I'm genuinely surprised they came back so quickly, as the FOS had told me it might take a year to process!

[di30]

Re: Hello to one and all

Many thanks! MBNA now have 10 weeks to come up with a figure. But I have to say I'm genuinely surprised they came back so quickly, as the FOS had told me it might take a year to process!

That is so fab Kev, about 3 months then, am I correct?
It looks like MBNA agreed before the case was actually moved on to the main Adjudicator then, brilliant, again well done!

[Bill-K]

Re: Hello to one and all

That's good news, Kev - well done you !!!

Have you worked out what you would consider as a fair offer of redress ? We can supply a spreadsheet/calculator for this, if you wish.