PPI - Nastywest

[orfoster]

I am helping a friend of mine claim back PPI from Natwest, we sent in a CCA request back a couple of months ago. We sent the request recorded delivery and on it made reference to the account number and sort code where the loan was held.

Natwest responded sending back a copy of an agreement with no date on it anywhere, it had my friends signature on it but no signature from the Natwest manager or date.

Anyway we sent off the Prelim letter and Natwest sent back a really long reply i've taken important quotes out of the letter.

You have recently contacted us about your complaint about our provision of Payment Protection Insurance with your loan taken in December 2006.

We both don't know which month the loan was taken out as the Credit Agreement doesn't say a date!

I understand that in early November 2006 you visited the Wellington Branch to discuss a Personal Loan for £17,000 to consolidate your existing loan. However this loan was never actually drawn down.

So I do wonder why they sent me a copy of the agreement of the wrong loan?!!! Why would we ask for a copy of a loan agreement we didn't actually take out!!

This is the first paragraph of my CCA request;

I hold an account with Natwest, Account Number :. Sort Code: . I understand I have a Natwest Personal Loan attached to my account where I pay by direct debit each month to meet the payments.

So this means existing loan surely not one she merely enquired about.

In their response they also say;

Instead a loan application for £16,600 was undertaken in early December by our South West lending Centre (i assume this means over the phone) and this was drawndown on 8th December 2006.

They then go on with the standard rubbish that all the terms etc were explained and they ask questions to see if you are suitable etc.

Having considered the above, I am unable to afree to your request for a full refund and interest. However, the policy is still active and you are able to cancel this. This will generate a pro-rata refund of £3,500 which will be credit to the loan in direct reduction of the outstanding amount (we don't want this and want the cash)

I will be sending a letter back asking for the correct agreement but just wanted to start a thread of where I am. If anyone has any tips etc on NatWest and their ways of PPI refunds then please let me know.

I will decline their offer at this time pending the correct documents being sent to me.

[iancognito]

Re: PPI - Nastywest

You haven't stated the grounds on which you think the PPI was mis sold, have you pointed these out to the bank?

The other issue that strikes me is that they are willing to cancel the PPI and refund the future payments to the loan account, you wouldn't be entitled to the cash refund for this as it hasn't actually been paid yet.

If you have a case for mis sold PPI, any previously paid installments, plus related interest, should be paid back in cash directly to the claimant.

[orfoster]

Re: PPI - Nastywest

Yes sorry I have pointed these out to the Bank, the reasons are;
They failed to explain the policy before the loan agreement was signed.
They told me I had to take out the PPI otherwise my loan wouldn't be accepted and when I said the insurance is optional they said that it was in most cases but not in mine.

Ahh ok I understand now, so the offer of a refund should be accepted although I am unable to check their figures as they didn't supply the correct agreement with my CCA request so I will await this before I accept the offer.

The loan agreement they sent was only £400 difference in borrowing so I guess the figures can't be that far off so;
£7,065.24 (for insurance loan) which is on this agreement and on the right agreement may well read £6,946.24.
£2,005.24 (interest for insurance loan)
Total £9,070.48

So they are offering £3,500 so that leaves £3,565.24 not including interest, yet they say in the letter the policy premium was £4,941 and with my refund it would leave a difference of £1,440. so this plus the interest comes to £6,946.24 so I think in this agreement although its wrong it says £7,065.24 but this is inclusive of interest although it doesn't say that. Oh they have confused me now.

[orfoster]

Re: PPI - Nastywest

I think I need the correct agreement before I can continue with the PPI claim.

I will send a letter asking for this. I thought that they may offer a refund of all the PPI and then leave the loan the same, which is what Nationwide have done for me. Rather than paying it into the loan and then give refund for the rest etc.

[iancognito]

Re: PPI - Nastywest

I thought I had probably got to the stage where nothing a bank could do wouldl surprise me anymore, I was obviously wrong.

Just tell me if I've got this right.

On a loan of £16,600 an additional £9k+ was added for PPI and interest on that PPI? is that what you're saying? no wonder you want it back!!

I'm speechless.

[Nattie]

Re: PPI - Nastywest

One thing I would say is that from the conversation as written down was that it was blatantly misleading and blatantly contrary to FSA and NatWest practices. A complaint against that advisor maybe worth doing as well.
Additional note, please edit out account number and sort code of the account in question,.

[iancognito]

Re: PPI - Nastywest

How do you prove that conversation every took place tho Nattie, or is it up to them to prove it didn't?

[Nattie]

Re: PPI - Nastywest

Jan, there are ways and means of knowing things and while a conversation with one person, per se, proves nothing, a number of complaints about the same subject would mount up and proof by numbers.

[orfoster]

Re: PPI - Nastywest

Hi Nattie thanks for your response, I got so caught up in putting the post on I forgot about the account number, whoops!

I may have got myself all confused so I will go by the old agreement only on this one just to make sure I have my figures right.
this is word for word what it says.

1. Key Financial Information
(A) Amount and Purpose of loan = £22,060.00

comprimising main loan(s) (a+b) (a) up to £15,938.30 for refinancing loan existing (acc num).
(b) cash loan of £1,061.70 (plus any balance of loan (a) not used for refinancing) for REFINANCE DEBT THIS BANK

Insurance Loan (refer to 2(a) for details) (c) £5,060.00

TOTAL AMOUNT PAYABLE = £30,799.44 (includes £7,065.24 for insurance loan)

It then goes on to say about repayments which is all ok.

2. Other Financial Information
(a) Insurance Loan Details - To finance this premium, (inclusive of insurance premium tax) payable to insurers for optional Loand Protector Insurance in relation to the agreement against death, accident, sickness or unemployment of Mr Orfoster in accordance with the banks loan protector insurance leaflet.

(B) Total Charge - £8,739.44 (Interest - includes £2,005.24 for insurance loan)
(C) Annual Rate of Interest - The amount of interest payable is calculated at the begining of the agreement and is equivalent to a fixed annual rate of interest of 10.04% over the term

Obviously the figures don't apply to their letter as its a different loan (£400) less as they sent the wrong agreement but just to go by I would now be claiming a total of £8,739.44 of PPI in all.
1. Cancel existing PPI and get the money returned into the loan account and reduce the loan. lets say £3500 was repaid into loan.
2. Claim the difference as the insurance was miss sold. so I would be after £5239.44 which includes the interest??

[iancognito]

Re: PPI - Nastywest

Can I ask what the term of this loan was? they appear to be offering back 1/2 of the PPI after 12 months which implies its only a 2 year loan?

[orfoster]

Re: PPI - Nastywest

84 month term.

[iancognito]

Re: PPI - Nastywest

Think someone needs to lend them a calculator too

[orfoster]

Re: PPI - Nastywest

So the paragraph in the letter reads

As your original policy premium was £4941 (cant check this as no original agreement but can't be that different from the correct loan), this would leave a difference of approximately £1,440 (if they paid £3500 off the loan). In the circumstances, as an exceptional gesture of goodwill, I am prepared to offer to refund half of this, which will be approximately £720. This would be credited to your current plus account.

[orfoster]

Re: PPI - Nastywest

I know I need to get the correct copy of the agreement but something really doesn't add up. I know I am going by an agreement that is £400 off the correct agreement but the figures can't be that much out.

Or am I missing something here?

[iancognito]

Re: PPI - Nastywest

As far as I can see, they are totally ignoring the interest they added to the PPI loan, you're right you need the correct agreement to be sure but those figures show £7k+ in total and they are offering £3.5k for the rest of the term, +£720 as a goodwill gesture, that leaves almost £3k 'missing'??? or is it me?