MattyA 's PPI Dilemma

[MattyA]

Hi All,

I have a bit of a dilemma with regards to my PPI claims,some of which are with FOS awaiting to be dealt with,one has been upheld but is now with Ombudsman and I have a few more at a stage where they could go to FOS or I could pursue them through the courts.

My dilemma is regarding to charge / reclaim simple interest or contractual interest in restitution.......that old chestnut.

I have used a spreadsheet, very kindly put together for me by Bill / Turboman(Thanks) to work out the charges which ,to me, are substantial in some of the claims and quite staggering if I use CI interest compounded in restitution.
I thought I was doing something wrong with the spreadsheets in coming up with such big numbers but it appears not.

If have read various threads and posts on here re the pro's & con's of each option and to be honest I am now confused as to which is the best way forward.

My biggest stumbling block going for the CI option are the associated costs.I was hoping for an early success with one of the claims and use that to fund the others.....but alas the BBA action put paid to that.

With regards to the claims already with the FOS, I will let them run their course.
If they suceed and I do not accept the FOS award of simple interest can I pursue CI through the courts?
Or is it a case that I have made my bed so now I must lie in it?

All thoughts / experiences grately appreciated.


Matty

[di30]

Re: MattyA 's PPI Dilemma

Hi Matty

Just catching up now.

Any further movement on this case since the last time you posted?

Cheers.

[Paul210]

Re: MattyA 's PPI Dilemma

Hi Matty,

"Consumers don’t have to accept any decision we make. They are always free to go to court instead. But if they do accept an ombudsman's decision, it is binding both on them and on the business" - Taken from http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/about/index.html

Personally I would always prefer FOS over litigation, I appreciate FOS have a massive backlog for new cases at the moment due to JR issues so is not a 'quick fix' however when compared with litigation it is preferable in a number of areas,

1. Its free - even if you represent yourself you still have to find application fees etc as well as having to comply with the civil procedure rules for evidencial disclosure, falling foul of which can seriously jeopardise any case.

2. Adverse costs - you mention some are quite large claims, if over the £5k level then isn't a small claims court case and as such should you loose you may be liable for the other sides costs (you can rest assured their bill wont be small!!

3. Success rate - FOS have a very well publicised high uphold rate in favour of the consumer, a number of recent court cases have gone in favour of the lenders setting a dangerous precedent in favour of lenders. Court would be much more of a risk in terms of actually winning.

Whilst the FOS redress calculations may mean you miss on some CI, getting your premiums + int charges to the account in relation to them + SI is preferable to chasing CI through court and ending up with nothing.

This is just my personal oppinion and no doubt someone else will come along and make an argument for the litigaion route, whichever way you decide to go good luck.

[MattyA]

Re: MattyA 's PPI Dilemma

Hi Matty

Just catching up now.

Any further movement on this case since the last time you posted?

Cheers.

Hi di,
No movement on any of my cases for now Im afraid.
I have held off sending the final cases off to the FOS ,but in light of what paul has posted I might as well send these off too,as this seems to be the best way forward for me.
Thanks for looking in on me.
Matty.

[MattyA]

Re: MattyA 's PPI Dilemma

Hi Matty,

"Consumers don’t have to accept any decision we make. They are always free to go to court instead. But if they do accept an ombudsman's decision, it is binding both on them and on the business" - Taken from http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/about/index.html

Personally I would always prefer FOS over litigation, I appreciate FOS have a massive backlog for new cases at the moment due to JR issues so is not a 'quick fix' however when compared with litigation it is preferable in a number of areas,

1. Its free - even if you represent yourself you still have to find application fees etc as well as having to comply with the civil procedure rules for evidencial disclosure, falling foul of which can seriously jeopardise any case.

2. Adverse costs - you mention some are quite large claims, if over the £5k level then isn't a small claims court case and as such should you loose you may be liable for the other sides costs (you can rest assured their bill wont be small!!

3. Success rate - FOS have a very well publicised high uphold rate in favour of the consumer, a number of recent court cases have gone in favour of the lenders setting a dangerous precedent in favour of lenders. Court would be much more of a risk in terms of actually winning.

Whilst the FOS redress calculations may mean you miss on some CI, getting your premiums + int charges to the account in relation to them + SI is preferable to chasing CI through court and ending up with nothing.

This is just my personal oppinion and no doubt someone else will come along and make an argument for the litigaion route, whichever way you decide to go good luck.

Thanks Paul - your input is appreciated and views respected as I am aware you have more than a little knowledge / experience in these matters.

1 question though if I may - If the claim is upheld by the FOS ,but I do not accept the amount offered in settlement,would the fact that the FOS had upheld the claim not make it a 'knocking bet' if I were to then take it to the courts and claim CI in rstitution?
You might think I am being greedy ,but I really dont see why it is deemed by all ,fair & reasonable that they charge me 30+% interest to charges on my account but in the eyes of the FOS it is 'reasonable' for me to be paid 8% SI in restitution.

On one of my claims this means the difference between £30K(SI) and £70+K(CI)

However ,I wouldnt like to think that I would be throwing £30K away if the CI route was impossible or risky.
I NEED the money as my house & family life are on the line here, so it is off to the FOS I go with the remainder of my claims.

Cheers

Matty

[pompeyfaith]

Re: MattyA 's PPI Dilemma

The FOS stance has always been to put the consumer back in the position had the PPI not been sold to them so on that point your claim would include any interest you had paid on those policies as only that can put you in the position they state.

On my claims I got the premiums paid plus the interest paid and 8% stat.

[EXC]

Re: MattyA 's PPI Dilemma

1 question though if I may - If the claim is upheld by the FOS ,but I do not accept the amount offered in settlement,would the fact that the FOS had upheld the claim not make it a 'knocking bet' if I were to then take it to the courts and claim CI in rstitution?

I'd agree with Paul.

The potential problem you face it that if you get an adverse decision in court, you lose your right to use the FOS for the claim. Whereas you always retain the right to go to court after any FOS decision.

[MattyA]

Re: MattyA 's PPI Dilemma

Thanks for your comments everyone - I will continue down the FOS route.

Just one point re the interest though - I have had one of my first claims(Amex PPI) put to the FOS upheld, but the FOS didnt accept that I was due any interest back from Amex as they took Amex at their word, who had told them that they did not charge interest.

I therefore did not accept the offer and have since proved to the FOS that Amex had indeed apply interest to all charges.
Fos agreed with this and approached Amex who simply told them that it was a take it or leave it offer (all ppi premiums refunded + 8%SI) and that their offer was a generous one.

It has now been passed on to an Ombudsman to have a look at but I have been told it could take more than a year before it is looked at.

In the meantime Amex continue to apply interest to the disputed account at CI rates(compounded) which ,will at some point in the future,negate any refund due to me after the account has been cleared.

Me thinks they know what they are doing.....

Matty.

[cappo]

Re: MattyA 's PPI Dilemma

Thanks Paul - your input is appreciated and views respected as I am aware you have more than a little knowledge / experience in these matters.

1 question though if I may - If the claim is upheld by the FOS ,but I do not accept the amount offered in settlement,would the fact that the FOS had upheld the claim not make it a 'knocking bet' if I were to then take it to the courts and claim CI in rstitution?
You might think I am being greedy ,but I really dont see why it is deemed by all ,fair & reasonable that they charge me 30+% interest to charges on my account but in the eyes of the FOS it is 'reasonable' for me to be paid 8% SI in restitution.

On one of my claims this means the difference between £30K(SI) and £70+K(CI)

However ,I wouldnt like to think that I would be throwing £30K away if the CI route was impossible or risky.
I NEED the money as my house & family life are on the line here, so it is off to the FOS I go with the remainder of my claims.

Cheers

Matty

good luck matty

[Paul210]

Re: MattyA 's PPI Dilemma

1 question though if I may - If the claim is upheld by the FOS ,but I do not accept the amount offered in settlement,would the fact that the FOS had upheld the claim not make it a 'knocking bet' if I were to then take it to the courts and claim CI in rstitution?
You might think I am being greedy ,but I really dont see why it is deemed by all ,fair & reasonable that they charge me 30+% interest to charges on my account but in the eyes of the FOS it is 'reasonable' for me to be paid 8% SI in restitution.

On one of my claims this means the difference between £30K(SI) and £70+K(CI)

However ,I wouldnt like to think that I would be throwing £30K away if the CI route was impossible or risky.
I NEED the money as my house & family life are on the line here, so it is off to the FOS I go with the remainder of my claims.

Cheers

Matty

Hi Matty,

2 points to consider in answer to your question, firstly just because FOS find in your favour doesnt mean you have any better chance in court, the court have so far been reluctant to use a priniple based judgement in deciding ppi cases, this may change ultimately as a result of the recent JR however until any this reaches its natural conclusion the issue is up in the air somewhat.

Secondly a FOS decision is binding and creates a leaglly pursuable debt should you take court action, however my understanding is that the decision of the ombudsman only becomes binding once accepted by the consumer, therefore I dont think you could use (say) the FOS ruling the lender is in breach on the sale but then not accept their calculations for restitution.

You would need more specific legal advice and it may well be worth speaking to FOS about this as well as you wont be the first person to be happy with their decision in your favour but have issues with the calculations. In my oppionion however I dont think the decision is binding in court unless you accept the whole thing (including FOS' calculations), not just part.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: MattyA 's PPI Dilemma

Secondly a FOS decision is binding and creates a leaglly pursuable debt should you take court action, however my understanding is that the decision of the ombudsman only becomes binding once accepted by the consumer, therefore I dont think you could use (say) the FOS ruling the lender is in breach on the sale but then not accept their calculations for restitution.

You would need more specific legal advice and it may well be worth speaking to FOS about this as well as you wont be the first person to be happy with their decision in your favour but have issues with the calculations. In my oppionion however I dont think the decision is binding in court unless you accept the whole thing (including FOS' calculations), not just part.

Spot on and as happened in my claim,.

I turned down 2 FOS offers and ended up with the help of this forum putting the correct figures to the FOS complete with letters detailing the method of calculation and negociating with the bank to get the right offer.

Detailed here:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ht=pompeyfaith

Quite a long thread but worth a read spcially towards the end as it does go into detail how I went about getting the right and just redress.

[MattyA]

Re: MattyA 's PPI Dilemma

Thanks Paul & Pompey for your comments, they are much appreciated.
I think that I may not have explained my case fully.
Whilst FOS upheld my claim - they did not do any calculations as to what I am owed.
They simply told me that they had upheld in my favour and that Amex had agreed to refund ALL premiums paid to date + SI at 8%.
When I asked about the fact that I was being asked to agree to an unkown figure, I was told by FOS that it was 'in principle' and that once I had agreed to the I could refer it to the FOS at a latter date if I was not happy with the figures involved and I could then refer the matter to the Ombudsman.
Which is what I have ended up doing.

[di30]

Re: MattyA 's PPI Dilemma

Thanks Paul & Pompey for your comments, they are much appreciated.
I think that I may not have explained my case fully.
Whilst FOS upheld my claim - they did not do any calculations as to what I am owed.
They simply told me that they had upheld in my favour and that Amex had agreed to refund ALL premiums paid to date + SI at 8%.
When I asked about the fact that I was being asked to agree to an unkown figure, I was told by FOS that it was 'in principle' and that once I had agreed to the I could refer it to the FOS at a latter date if I was not happy with the figures involved and I could then refer the matter to the Ombudsman.
Which is what I have ended up doing.

Hi Matty

That is correct, you can ask the FOS/Adjudicator dealing with your complaint to check the calculations once you received the payout.

My hubby had a case resolved through the FOS regarding a Credit Card PPI, it was paid out, and hubby requested for a written detailed breakdown, they supplied them, then sent a copy to the FOS, it was then forwarded to a team who will look through the calculations.
Anyway despite hubby receiving his payout, and even though it was a few months down the line, the FOS confirmed another cheque payment is on its way as the bank did miscalculate.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: MattyA 's PPI Dilemma

I think that I may not have explained my case fully.
Whilst FOS upheld my claim - they did not do any calculations as to what I am owed.
They simply told me that they had upheld in my favour and that Amex had agreed to refund ALL premiums paid to date + SI at 8%.
When I asked about the fact that I was being asked to agree to an unkown figure, I was told by FOS that it was 'in principle' and that once I had agreed to the I could refer it to the FOS at a latter date if I was not happy with the figures involved and I could then refer the matter to the Ombudsman.
Which is what I have ended up doing.

Indeed that is the exact situation I had, the way around it is detailed in my thread linked above.

Regards

[MattyA]

Re: MattyA 's PPI Dilemma

Indeed that is the exact situation I had, the way around it is detailed in my thread linked above.

Regards

Thanks pompey- I will read it again then,as it was a while ago when I first stumbled across it.
Cheers,
Matt