Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Thank you for your input folks, I am as always ever so grateful.
That is also interesting Paul.

I am off to see my brother now as he's not long come out of hospital, and will be back early this afternoon.

And Paul please feel free, that is fab, cheers so much.

[Paul210]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Hi Di,

just read the letters you posted, no real surprise there then, I think this one defo needs to be escalated!

To my mind he seems to have missed the point completely, I thought that between yourself and TBD youd managed to make a fairly straightforward case for the agency argument, I just dont think he understands what that means or the implications of it. The very fact EPF paid Click a commision (click wouldnt have worked with them if they didnt) means there was an agency relationship, irrespective of whether there was an actual introducers agency agreement in place (which EPF insisted on, I know as Ive worked for a company that brokered secured loans with them)

I think i've mentioned this before but its worth looking at Wilson v Hurstanger, not a ppi case per se but could be used in this case (the outlaw write up is quite good if you dont want to read the full judgement http://www.out-law.com/page-8928)

To quote the commentary "Significantly, the lender, who had paid the commission knowing that the broker was acting as the agent of the borrowers, was found liable as an accessory to that breach. This meant that the borrowers were entitled to claim equitable compensation directly against Hurstanger." I think this could be extended to cover commision on the ppi product, by inducing the broker to sell by way of commisions it could be argued that they induced a breach of your rights, this could be supplemented with the argument that your original quote didnt include ppi but this was added subsequently wihtout your knowledge. You then expand the argument to make EPF liable using the Hurstanger case as precedent. Once yourve argued EPF liable you replicate the same argument with Hamilton.

I think if you integrate this with TBD's already persuasive argument about agency relationships you could make a very good case.

If yourself and TBD dont mind I'd be keen to see the response you submit, also I'd be more than happy to cast a third eye over it and add any thoughts if either of you think it would be of assitance.

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

TBD! Go get 'em!

Its great to have TBD on your side Di. I'm sure if you give the ombudsman enough grief they will start to take notice of the seriousness and complexity of this complaint.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Morning Di,

Tell him we'll be in a position to reply before the 5th. I think this is all going over his head, which is a shame, because he should know what an Actual Agent Relationship is in English Law based on what he does for a living.

I've noted that HFC wouldn't disclose to the FOS whether Click was a packager, and his assertation that it was merely collecting documents on behalf of the lender even if it was a packager is total hogwash - does this guy really think that any Tom, Dick or Harry can go around requesting loan references and the lender will accept them?

First things first, I'm going to call in a couple of favours, and I'm going to try and get hold of an EPF packaging agreement - I think I know where I'll find one - once we put that under his nose, there'll be no doubt who was acting for who. It'll give it away just on the title alone, because the title of it will state 'Mortgage Packaging Agency Agreement'.

I'll be in touch over the weekend.

Regards,

TBD.

Thanks for the link PF.

Cheers TBD

The Adjudicator may has well have sent his last (June) letter lol, despite the info and paperwork that should have been enough, but he obviously doesn't understand how it works.

That will be fab TBD if you could manage to get hold of one, much appreciated indeed.

In regards of the SAR, do you think I should request this from the FOS or HFC?
I do have an Endeavour SAR but that is a few years old now?
Or SAR both perhaps?

I shall be back later sometime, but any further help is appreciated, thank you.

Di

[The_Big_Dog]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Morning Di,

Tell him we'll be in a position to reply before the 5th. I think this is all going over his head, which is a shame, because he should know what an Actual Agent Relationship is in English Law based on what he does for a living.

I've noted that HFC wouldn't disclose to the FOS whether Click was a packager, and his assertation that it was merely collecting documents on behalf of the lender even if it was a packager is total hogwash - does this guy really think that any Tom, Dick or Harry can go around requesting loan references and the lender will accept them?

First things first, I'm going to call in a couple of favours, and I'm going to try and get hold of an EPF packaging agreement - I think I know where I'll find one - once we put that under his nose, there'll be no doubt who was acting for who. It'll give it away just on the title alone, because the title of it will state 'Mortgage Packaging Agency Agreement'.

I'll be in touch over the weekend.

Regards,

TBD.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Di,

Here you go just found this for you.

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...-requests.html

Regards

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

remember you want copies of letters, emails, faxes and recorings if they have them and of course the FOS may realize that you are on to them and refuse but change there decision which is ok as that is the result.

Regards
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you have a PM

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Your Welcome it is the only way that you can find out what has been said between the FOS and the lender and it may give you insight into the adjudicators logic of thinking and the decision he came too as well as maybe throw up some evidance you have not seen.

Grab them both by the horns you have nothing to lose.

Regards

I will do PF.

Do you know where the SAR's are on here? lol, thanks.

Will come back to this tomorrow now with a clearer head, cheers.

Di
x

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Your Welcome it is the only way that you can find out what has been said between the FOS and the lender and it may give you insight into the adjudicators logic of thinking and the decision he came too as well as maybe throw up some evidance you have not seen.

Grab them both by the horns you have nothing to lose.

Regards

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Oh and btw you are entitled to be treated equal with the FOS and the lender and in my case the letters I was sending to the FOS they where faxing to the co-op bank so by that you are entilted to see the communication between your lender and the FOS.

Regards

It works both ways.
Thank you PF, when I get back tomorrow I shall get on to this, cheers.
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Oh and btw you are entitled to be treated equal with the FOS and the lender and in my case the letters I was sending to the FOS they where faxing to the co-op bank so by that you are entilted to see the communication between your lender and the FOS.

Regards
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Di,

No you want to see the communications that the lender has sent to the FOS.

Regards

Right, so I must specifically request for the communications to the FOS and if I SAR make sure I add this in? Thanks.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Oh and btw you are entitled to be treated equal with the FOS and the lender and in my case the letters I was sending to the FOS they where faxing to the co-op bank so by that you are entilted to see the communication between your lender and the FOS.

Regards
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Di,

No you want to see the communications that the lender has sent to the FOS.

Regards

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Di,

Sure you can there is nothing barring you from seeing it as it relates to you anyway, I was sent copies of letters addressed to the FOS from the Co-op bank.

I am not sure though If you need to make a SAR request although I did not as in my case they just sent it.

Perhaps email or phone then tomorrow and request it and if they do not comply then make it a more formal request with a SAR.

Regards

Arh right, so SAR HFC then? not the FOS?

It will be interesting, and if there is anything missing if I did do this on the grounds of a SAR then they must surely comply and send even the details they forwarded to the FOS?

Thank you PF.

I think I will request a SAR actually, the last one received was from about 2008, and some things have gone on ever since, very interesting.
It was Endeavour that did send us the details within the last SAR of all their own paperwork/Click and Hamilton which all are provided to the FOS and this is why I don't understand why he cannot find the link via the underwriter.

The Adjudicator knows like we do that we are unable to go the Click direction because they dissolved, and it was the FOS to go the underwriter direction as another avenue.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Di,

Sure you can there is nothing barring you from seeing it as it relates to you anyway, I was sent copies of letters addressed to the FOS from the Co-op bank.

I am not sure though If you need to make a SAR request although I did not as in my case they just sent it.

Perhaps email or phone then tomorrow and request it and if they do not comply then make it a more formal request with a SAR.

Regards

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

I am hearing of quite a few claims that are clearly missold not going in the consumers favour, and at a time when they won the court case it is quite strange.

If they are not going to side with the wrongdoing why take the financial industry on in court.

Di I think the correspondance sent to the FOS from HFC/HAMILTON and all would be quite revealing have you considered getting hold of this?

Regards
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Why is the FOS rejection letter above predated ?

Thank you PF, it's posted dated because I asked him to email the letter, he also sent a hard copy in the post which is on the way to be posted tomorrow and he is away from office now until 1st August.

I have sent all the paperwork in relation of them all, which is why I don't understand PF, even though this was only going to be an opinion as he previously said on his last letter in June he could not conclude, despite sending him all the info since then, he still sticking by that decision he made in June.

Would they be able to send the info from HFC etc if I requested this before its moved on to the ombudsman do you know? Cheers hon.

I hope the ombudsman will be able to work this out. x

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

I am hearing of quite a few claims that are clearly missold not going in the consumers favour, and at a time when they won the court case it is quite strange.

If they are not going to side with the wrongdoing why take the financial industry on in court.

Di I think the correspondance sent to the FOS from HFC/HAMILTON and all would be quite revealing have you considered getting hold of this?

Regards
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Why is the FOS rejection letter above predated ?