DSS want 65K overpayment from my daughters mum.

[Colin Glover]

My first wife and I separated in 2000. She moved in with her partner into rented accommodation. In 2012 she was caught claiming benefits (inc Housing Benefit and Income Support). There was a £68k overpayment. Her partner never married but I did. She died in January. She was paying it off from her benefits when she died which I think was caters allowance and something else I'm not sure of, probably tax credits. About £3k was repaid, leaving £65k outstanding when she died. She had several bank accounts amounting to maybe 2.5k. According to my daughter her mum's partner has several thousand pounds stashed away in a secret account the HMRC/DWP are unaware of. One of my daughters mums accounts was an old trustee account in mine and her name as trustees for my daughter with £843 in. I didn't pay anything in since we split and it's my assumption it can't be counted part of the estate. My daughter has autism and is 19. She's unemployed and gets PIP but nothing else. She's been awarded ISA but doesn't get anything as she needs sick notes but is not sick. She has mental health issues but not severe.
So my question is what can the DWP legally claim back? Can they make my daughter agree to indefinitely pay back the debt? And should they only be notified about the accounts het mum had benefits paid into, or will they have access to information about all her mums accounts? Anywhere we can go for advice? Solicitor would take all that's left in fees, and CAB too snowed under to help. Any advice appreciated. Many thanks.

[leclerc]

Re: DSS want 65K overpayment from my daughters mum.

Does you daughter have an account solely in her name only?

My gut feeling is that the debt would be written off as the claim was solely in her name only, is that right?

[Colin Glover]

Re: DSS want 65K overpayment from my daughter after her mum's death..

Does you daughter have an account solely in her name only?

My gut feeling is that the debt would be written off as the claim was solely in her name only, is that right?

My daughter has her own Bank account. Claim was her mum;s claim and soley in her mum's name. Mum 'Failed to note' change of circumstances. Some money has been transferred from 3 accounts. One was the trustee account, the others her mums accounts. Advising not to spend a penny. Dont want DWP to get heavy handed. What's the likelihood of that?

[Colin Glover]

Re: DSS want 65K overpayment from my daughter after her mum's death..

My daughter has her own Bank account. Claim was her mum;s claim and soley in her mum's name. Mum 'Failed to note' change of circumstances. Some money has been transferred from 3 accounts. One was the trustee account, the others her mums accounts. Advising not to spend a penny. Dont want DWP to get heavy handed. What's the likelihood of that?

Bump

[des8]

Re: DSS want 65K overpayment from my daughters mum.

The debt was solely the deceased, and DWP cannot (should not) be looking for payment from any other source (unless she had gifted assets to others)
Debts are not inherited.

Whoever is settling the estate should be aware there is as trict order in which debts of an insolvent estate have to be paid.
To breach this order could leave the personal representative liable

[leclerc]

Re: DSS want 65K overpayment from my daughters mum.

The debt was solely the deceased, and DWP cannot (should not) be looking for payment from any other source (unless she had gifted assets to others)
Debts are not inherited.

Whoever is settling the estate should be aware there is as trict order in which debts of an insolvent estate have to be paid.
To breach this order could leave the personal representative liable

[MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] can we clarify the trustee account bit?

[Colin Glover]

Re: DSS want 65K overpayment from my daughters mum.

[MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] can we clarify the trustee account bit?

It was an account where we put savings in for my daughter. We split when she was 4. I never put much in after that.. To the best of my daughters knowledge mum never had any benefits paid into this account. It was closed by me on Saturday and money put in my daughter's account.

[des8]

Re: DSS want 65K overpayment from my daughters mum.

If the account was set up as a properly constituted trust there should be no problem as the money although nominally belonging to the trustees, it is solely for the benefit of the beneficiary.

On the other hand this sounds like a couple opened a joint account with the intention of passing it to their daughter.
In that case cash is still safe if this was the standard joint account, as on the death of one holder the account becomes solely that of the survivor.(rather like joint tenants of a house)

At least that's my understanding, but who knows what DWP recoveries will try.

[Colin Glover]

Re: DSS want 65K overpayment from my daughters mum.

If the account was set up as a properly constituted trust there should be no problem as the money although nominally belonging to the trustees, it is solely for the benefit of the beneficiary.

On the other hand this sounds like a couple opened a joint account with the intention of passing it to their daughter.
In that case cash is still safe if this was the standard joint account, as on the death of one holder the account becomes solely that of the survivor.(rather like joint tenants of a house)

At least that's my understanding, but who knows what DWP recoveries will try.

[MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] So what COULD they try? And how should my daughter reply?

[des8]

Re: DSS want 65K overpayment from my daughters mum.

The DWP should contact the person who is administering the estate and lodge a claim for the money outstanding.

Was the estate large enough to warrant an application for probate and did anyone apply for a grant of probate

That is the person to whom the DWP should be applying, and any contact from them should be referred over.

If they try and make your daughter responsible for her mother's debts post up their letter suitably redacted so we can advise.

[Colin Glover]

Re: DSS want 65K overpayment from my daughters mum.

The DWP should contact the person who is administering the estate and lodge a claim for the money outstanding.

Was the estate large enough to warrant an application for probate and did anyone apply for a grant of probate

That is the person to whom the DWP should be applying, and any contact from them should be referred over.

If they try and make your daughter responsible for her mother's debts post up their letter suitably redacted so we can advise.

Estate will be under 5k. And my daughter hasn't sent probate forms off. Two banks need probate before they'll release money. If my daughter applied for it then she'd be executor and liable for it, right? If I did it, if there was a hitch, I'd be liable, right? And saying we'll give DWP the money we have could leave us open to them trying to get back the lot, is that correct?
What does suitably redacted mean? [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION]

[Kati]

Re: DSS want 65K overpayment from my daughters mum.

What does suitably redacted mean?

names/addresses/ref numbers removed so you cannot be identified xx

[des8]

Re: DSS want 65K overpayment from my daughters mum.

The administrater only becomes liable if they do not act according to the rules.
There is an order of priority for applying for probate:
1 Husband, wife or registered civil partner
2 Children
3 Grandchildren
4 The parents
5 The brothers and sisters
6 Nieces and nephews

The administrator only collects in theassets and distributes them among the debtors (if any) and the beneficiaries according to a strict orderof priority