CCJ From 12 Years ago - PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

[glarge1234]

On 23rd December last year I received an Attachment of earnings order from Manchester County Court, on further investigation a CCJ was awarded against me in 2005, as I did not dispute it.

To my complete horror Marsh Finance had taken me to court for outstanding money on a Hire purchase agreement I took out with them in 2004.

I brought the vehicle but after receiving copies of the paperwork (Hire purchase agreement) wasn't happy with the contents (APR Rate, the fact that I felt bullied into it, I signed the documents at my house without even reading them (A massive error that I now regret) and importantly the vehicles numerous faults. In early 2005 I spoke to Marsh they agreed to take the vehicle back and deal with the supplying dealer with regards to my complaint. That is the last I heard of the matter.

Fast forward 12 years and I now get this Attachment of earnings request.

The facts are as follows:

I did not receive a default notice from the Finance Company
I had no awareness of the CCJ or court summons
I did not receive a copy of the court order

I have completed a set aside form and have my hearing next weds but wondered if anyone had any advice for me on how best to put this argument to the judge 12 years after the event..

I have requested a copy of my Hire purchase agreement from the claimant which I now have and question some of its durability.

Firstly the APR rate is simply shown as 15.9, no details of whether its annual or fixed rate.
There are no breakdown of any additional costs such a late letter charges, rejected direct debit charges etc, is this legal?? The HP agreement doesn't correlate to the Vehicle invoice itself...

Finally the car I part exchanged in is not showing on the finance agreement, it states no part exchange and the documentation fee has been built into the amount of credit, having read "Wilson v First County 2003" is this hire purchase agreement actually enforceable???

The claimant Marsh Finance have never sent me a single letter regarding outstanding balance or payment or attempted to enforce the CCJ in the last 12 years..

Whats my best course of action in front of the judge, after 12 years I have no correspondence with regards to returning the car due to faults and cannot prove it.

[Kati]

Re: CCJ From 12 Years ago - PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] [MENTION=55034]nemesis45[/MENTION] [MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION] ... wouldn't this be Statute Barred now (12 years with no contact) :noidea:

[glarge1234]

Re: CCJ From 12 Years ago - PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

Thanks Kati and thanks for involving some others who might be able to help. I don't believe CCJ's ever become statute barred but what about the fact they haven't chased me in 12 years since judgement was passed or in fact provided me with a default notice or summons?? Besides the fact the original HP agreement doesn't stack up.

[Kati]

Re: CCJ From 12 Years ago - PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

[MENTION=48934]Debt Camel[/MENTION] is online at the minute too ... she should be able to answer the SB'd/CCJ question xx

[Diana M]

Re: CCJ From 12 Years ago - PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

in fact provided me with a default notice or summons?? Besides the fact the original HP agreement doesn't stack up.

From what you've said in this post and in your first post you may have grounds to get the CCJ set aside if it was served on an incorrect address and you have likely prospects of successfully defending the claim if you were to be given the opportunity.

If you make an Application to set aside the CCJ that should interrupt an AOE.

So firstly what was the reason you never received the claim form?

Di

[glarge1234]

Re: CCJ From 12 Years ago - PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

i have made the application to set aside and have a court date of next weds, I requested all the information off marsh Finance relating to the particulars of claim and they sent me just the hire purchase agreement, even now I haven't had sight of any default notice or summons? I moved from the address supposedly served in 2008, 3 years after the CCJ was made, I categorically DID not receive a default notice or summons, surely they have to prove to the court that I've received these??

I have consistently been on the electoral roll and never had any gap in this, I can only assume Marsh finance didn't pursue it due to administrative problems there end??

How can I prove to the court I never received anything or is it there job to prove I did?? The CCJ was only awarded from what I understand because I didn't contest it as I didn't know about it??

[Diana M]

Re: CCJ From 12 Years ago - PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

I can see that you have a set aside Hearing next Wednesday but I thought you wanted to know what you should argue.

If I've understood your last post you're saying that you were living at the address where the claim form was sent but you didn't receive it and you didn't receive the Default Judgment (CCJ) either even though you didn't move from that address until three years later.

So are you implying that the Claimant obtained the Default Judgment more than three years after the claim was issued?

Or have I misunderstood your posts?

What reason did you give for the set aside in your Application?

Did you file a WS with your Application?

Did you file a Draft Defence with your Application to give the court an indication of why you would have legal arguments worth listening to if the CCJ were to be set aside?

Have you heard anything from the Claimant? Is there any possibility that they would consent to the set aside?

Di

[Debt Camel]

Re: CCJ From 12 Years ago - PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

If the set aside doesn't succeed (it may be difficult to show you didn't receive the forms if they were posted to the correct address) then there is still the argument that a CCJ is not enforceable after 6 years except with permission from the court, see CPR 83.2 3(a).

[glarge1234]

Re: CCJ From 12 Years ago - PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

Debtcamel, thanks for taking the time to talk to me on this. As this was 12 years ago I have spoken to the electoral roll office who are going to confirm the exact date I moved address (I definitely notified them they day I moved) This should help in proving that I never received the paperwork from Marsh finance or the courts regarding action, Even So if they have attempted to issue an AOE in December 2016, 10 years after judgement without getting the courts permission was passed originally can this be deemed they are in breach of CPR 83.2 3(a). What are the consequences of this??

[Diana M]

Re: CCJ From 12 Years ago - PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

Ring the court and ask them if the Claimant sought permission from the court to make that Attachment of Earnings application.

(This is a separate issue to the set aside application.)

Di

[glarge1234]

Re: CCJ From 12 Years ago - PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

Ring the court and ask them if the Claimant sought permission from the court to make that Attachment of Earnings application.

(This is a separate issue to the set aside application.)

Di

I have spoken to the court who are in the process of trying to get hold of the file to provide me with the actual court order made 12 years ago and particulars of the claim, however have not heard back, they did say however that a court order had not been issued to allow the attachment of earnings.

Thanks again

[Diana M]

Re: CCJ From 12 Years ago - PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

I have spoken to the court . . . . .

. . . . they did say however that a court order had not been issued to allow the attachment of earnings.

Which contradicts what you posted at the beginning of the thread although it's possible you may not have understood the vocabulary they used (I mean that in a nice way ). Could they have said there was no Application for permission to apply for the AOE?

On 23rd December last year I received an Attachment of earnings order from Manchester County Court

You're up against the clock with a hearing on Wednesday to set aside the CCJ so preparing for that has to be your priority if you don't want to get lumbered with the other side's legal costs if you lose. Are solicitors instructed?

If your set-aside application is successful then the CCJ vanishes like it never happened (giving you the opportunity to defend the claim). Common sense says that an AOE can't be used as enforcement of that CCJ if it no longer exists (due to the set aside).

You need to answer some of the questions already asked.

Were you living at the address to which the original claim was served at the time it was served? (even if you didn't receive it)

Were you living at that address when the Default Judgment was obtained and sent to that address? (even if you didn't receive it)

Or have you been implying that the Default Judgment (CCJ) was obtained three years after the claim had been issued so you didn't receive it because you had moved to another address by that point?

Di

[glarge1234]

Re: CCJ From 12 Years ago - PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

Could they have said there was no Application for permission to apply for the AOE?

They said they have had no recent application to apply for the AOE.

I am yet to see the original charging order or claim so have no idea what address is on there.

I have called the court but they are struggling to locate the file.

[Diana M]

Re: CCJ From 12 Years ago - PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

I am yet to see the original charging order or claim so have no idea what address is on there.

Are you saying there was also a Charging Order registered on a property you own as a result of the CCJ?

Di

[glarge1234]

Re: CCJ From 12 Years ago - PLEASE CAN SOMEONE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE

There was a charging order made on the property apparently but as the bank had repossessed it I assume it was pointless.