Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

[Bazza]

I sent a CCA request to DMC 30/4
Reply received 16/5 (letter dated 13/5)
Wescot advised that I should send CCA request to RBS enclosing fee.
Sent to RBS 17/5
Reply received today 8/6 (letter dated 4/6)

They regret to advise that agreement has been misfiled and unable to locate it and returned fee.
They state that they cannot enforce agreement at this time but will when able to comply with section 78 (1).
They also go on to say that the agreement is not void and that I have to continue making agreed payments, and if I do not pay which is requested on the monthly statements they will take legal action to pursue debt. RBS also included a copy (not dated) of a letter advising of my new credit card and a copy of General Terms and Conditions of the card agreement.

Is this just the standard reply ? Have they defaulted by not responding within 12+2 days ?

There is also the issue of monthly statements in which I have never received anything from RBS for some years now and no yearly statements of any sort from Wescot ? Again have they not fully complied ?
To cap it off they also enclosed someone elses Credit Card statement account details for May 2015 :tinysmile_cry_t: Should I return to RBS or forward to the persons address concerned ?

Thanks

[nemesis45]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Hi,

The debt is temporarily unenforceable until the agreement is found, you have received their response and
the only " penalty" for non compliance is the temporary unenforceability of the debt via the courts.

It is correct that the debt still exists and remains payable.

I suspect by the tone of the letter that a " reconstituted " agreement" could be produced to satisfy the CCA Request.

The 3rd Party documents you have received should be returned to The Data Controller at RBS (Head Office) with a comment on the possible breach of DPA 1998.

Who are Wescott acting for RBS?

This appears to be considered a live account, what is the "dispute2?


nem

[Bazza]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Hi,

The debt is temporarily unenforceable until the agreement is found, you have received their response and
the only " penalty" for non compliance is the temporary unenforceability of the debt via the courts.

It is correct that the debt still exists and remains payable.

I suspect by the tone of the letter that a " reconstituted " agreement" could be produced to satisfy the CCA Request.

The 3rd Party documents you have received should be returned to The Data Controller at RBS (Head Office) with a comment on the possible breach of DPA 1998.

Who are Wescott acting for RBS?

This appears to be considered a live account, what is the "dispute2?


nem

Cheers Nem.

So therefore they could still enforce the debt on the back of a reconstituted agreement ?

Ok I will return to the data protection department as soon as possible, very worrying as this is not the first time.

Wescot are acting for RBS and is still a live account as I have an agreed repayment plan in place but with interest frozen.

Would a PPI claim affect any dispute ?

[nemesis45]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

You are entitled to reclaim PPI that has been mis- sold at any time it's separate from the from the card account and any rproblems with it. The bank however may be able to offset the repayment against debt.

A recon agreement together with statements being evidence of acceptance and usage of a credit facility may lead a judge to conclude on the balance of probabilities the liability subsists and the debt is enforceable.

Is there any " dispute " Bazza?

nem

[Bazza]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

You are entitled to reclaim PPI that has been mis- sold at any time it's separate from the from the card account and any rproblems with it. The bank however may be able to offset the repayment against debt.

A recon agreement together with statements being evidence of acceptance and usage of a credit facility may lead a judge to conclude on the balance of probabilities the liability subsists and the debt is enforceable.

Is there any " dispute " Bazza?

nem

Thanks again Nem

There's not a dispute as such but I have already claimed the PPI through complaint with the ombudsman in which was credited to me due to priority debts.

I already have an existing repayment plan in which I have adhered to but now considering complaining against the enforceability of the agreement in which they have failed to submit and breach of conditions of non-production of any statements since it was passed to Wescot.

Do I stop paying anymore or do I continue with the existing plan ?

Cheers

Bazza

[nemesis45]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Hi Bazz,

The unenforceability unfortunately does not wipe out the underlying debt which remains collectable by any
means short of court action.
Should receive a statement of the account at least once a year.

The threat of " legal action" if you cease the arranged payments seems more than a little strange give that it is admitted the agreement is unavailable.

The letter re the " renewal " of the credit card and the enclosed " General terms and conditions" may indicate that they would attempt to rely upon a recon.

My feeling would be to continue with the arranged payments for now ( or reduce them) and keep pressing for the
original agreement.

A recon still has to comply completely with the following.

1. It must have: Your name and address as at the inception of the agreement.
2. The creditors name and address at inception.
3. The terms and conditions as they were at the inception of the agreement,
4.The T's & C's ( Current in this case) at the closure of the account.
5. Any material amendments to the T's & C's made during the life of the agreement.
6.Any other documents mentioned in the T's & C's. (e.g. Often the Ts & C's are provided
in the form of a " booklet" and enclosed with a card when it is issued.
This may well meet the requirements of a CCA request but enforceability will be a
matter for a judge.

Too many people give in too quickly when presented with a recon each one has to be carefully scrutinised as it's too easy
to slip in parts of other documents if the original can't be found.
Keep those T's and C's safe they maybe useful later.

nem

[jon1965]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Hi
Have you said when the card was taken out.
I have had similar letters like that and they were filed and no more payments made but these were from debts prior to apr 2007.

Although it can be done, and the banks often claim they have enough evidence , it is pretty difficult to prove a valid agreement was in place on these older debts. The only one I know of was arrow global v frost but that was quite an interesting case as the defendant was quite confused as to dates and things

[Bazza]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Hi Bazz,

The unenforceability unfortunately does not wipe out the underlying debt which remains collectable by any
means short of court action.
Should receive a statement of the account at least once a year.

The threat of " legal action" if you cease the arranged payments seems more than a little strange give that it is admitted the agreement is unavailable.

The letter re the " renewal " of the credit card and the enclosed " General terms and conditions" may indicate that they would attempt to rely upon a recon.

My feeling would be to continue with the arranged payments for now ( or reduce them) and keep pressing for the
original agreement.

A recon still has to comply completely with the following.

1. It must have: Your name and address as at the inception of the agreement.
2. The creditors name and address at inception.
3. The terms and conditions as they were at the inception of the agreement,
4.The T's & C's ( Current in this case) at the closure of the account.
5. Any material amendments to the T's & C's made during the life of the agreement.
6.Any other documents mentioned in the T's & C's. (e.g. Often the Ts & C's are provided
in the form of a " booklet" and enclosed with a card when it is issued.
This may well meet the requirements of a CCA request but enforceability will be a
matter for a judge.

Too many people give in too quickly when presented with a recon each one has to be carefully scrutinised as it's too easy
to slip in parts of other documents if the original can't be found.
Keep those T's and C's safe they maybe useful later.

nem

Thanks Nem.

Yes I do understand that the debt will still exist but I have never received any form of annual or monthly statement for many years now.

Ok I will leave as it is and will keep requesting the original agreement.

Quickly looking at what was submitted they have stated my current address on the letter sent and not that of when I opened the account (actually February 1998 and not 2001) and the only RBS address (Southend-on-sea) mentioned is on the back under CCA 1974 details.

I have attached a copy of what was received regarding conditions.

[Bazza]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

There is also the issue of receiving another persons statement - do I just forward a letter to Data Protection at RBS head office (Can someone kindly confirm address please) mentioning possible breach of principal 4 with statement attached ? Or do I contact the ICO ?

[jon1965]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Bazza
Have they ever actually defaulted you on this agreement ?
Those T&C's are clearly up to date ones (or fairly up to date) because of the 033 phone number

If you carry on paying the debt will never become SB and you will be paying it off forever whereas i suspect they could not produce an enforceable cca anyway let alone comply with a S78 request.

[Bazza]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Bazza
Have they ever actually defaulted you on this agreement ?
Those T&C's are clearly up to date ones (or fairly up to date) because of the 033 phone number

If you carry on paying the debt will never become SB and you will be paying it off forever whereas i suspect they could not produce an enforceable cca anyway let alone comply with a S78 request.

Yes I am sure I defaulted on the old agreement in 2004/5 - Might be able to locate something amongst my old paperwork.

Note your comments about SB hence my questions regarding stopping payments now and enforceability of what they have produced.

The address stated on the Credit Card Agreement details submitted is my current address and not the original address when I applied for the card.

[jon1965]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Hi Bazza
If they can not locate the original details I suspect that they might not have your original address otherwise my suspicion is they would have sent a recon .Knowing RBS the DN will be invalid as well .
Of course as always it is your call , I suppose questions to ask are , do you have assets, could you repay in full what you owe, is a CCJ potentially devastaing. I personally have no assets , no money and a CCJ so what so I can take the risk , needless to say you can usually get an order pre CCJ with a set payment arrangement,

[Bazza]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Hi Bazza
If they can not locate the original details I suspect that they might not have your original address otherwise my suspicion is they would have sent a recon .Knowing RBS the DN will be invalid as well .
Of course as always it is your call , I suppose questions to ask are , do you have assets, could you repay in full what you owe, is a CCJ potentially devastaing. I personally have no assets , no money and a CCJ so what so I can take the risk , needless to say you can usually get an order pre CCJ with a set payment arrangement,

Thanks jon1965

You mention that the DN maybe invalid - in what respect if you don't mind me asking ? What am I to check if I locate details ?

I do have assets so my situation is slightly different and current repayment plan is affordable so perhaps I should just continue with the agreed arrangement for now.

[nemesis45]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Any attempt at providing a recon will fail immediately if the address is anything other than the one
current at the time the agreement was signed.

The 3rd party data received should be returned, but I would certainly send a strong letter of complaint
with it and copy the letter to the ICO for information regarding the competence of the RBS Data Controller.

nem

[Bazza]

Re: Wescot Credit Services / RBS credit card debt

Any attempt at providing a recon will fail immediately if the address is anything other than the one
current at the time the agreement was signed.

The 3rd party data received should be returned, but I would certainly send a strong letter of complaint
with it and copy the letter to the ICO for information regarding the competence of the RBS Data Controller.

nem

Cheers Nem

General conditions refer to cardholder address overleaf in which was not my address in 1998 when card was opened.

Do I need to reply to RBS stateing this?

I will definately forward 3rd party details to RBS attached to a letter of complaint. Would you know what address to send it to as it looks as if though the letter I received is addressed from the Agency Management Officer at RBS Cards Services, Southend-on-Sea ?