20% Discount

[Kolokial]

Hi folks, I'm dealing with a 'pay day loan' that was taken out post 2009. I requested a copy of the CCA from Lowell, in hindsight this might not have been a good idea. Afterwards I later sent an email basically putting forward a payment proposal, to which they accepted. Lowell have now responded with a letter and a copy of a CCA with no signature and interestingly have also offered to write off 20% of the balance.

I'm a little confused by their actions. I hadn't considered negotiating (yes I know, silly me) but now that they have put this to us, I'm wondering if it's worth asking for a larger discount? Or if that might exacerbate the situation.

So, do we accept the new balance with a discount and pay the amount they accepted from us or ask for a larger discount? If so, how do we negotiate? We'd rather not incur their wrath!

Thank you in advance people. :-)

[FlamingParrot]

Re: 20% Discount

Hi folks, I'm dealing with a 'pay day loan' that was taken out post 2009. I requested a copy of the CCA from Lowell, in hindsight this might not have been a good idea. Afterwards I later sent an email basically putting forward a payment proposal, to which they accepted. Lowell have now responded with a letter and a copy of a CCA with no signature and interestingly have also offered to write off 20% of the balance.

A CCA request wouldn't be much use for payday loans. Normally you would have applied online and ticked a box agreeing to the terms which would be the equivalent of a signature. It's unlikely you would have signed an agreement when you took out a payday loan in the first place.

I'm a little confused by their actions. I hadn't considered negotiating (yes I know, silly me) but now that they have put this to us, I'm wondering if it's worth asking for a larger discount? Or if that might exacerbate the situation.

So, do we accept the new balance with a discount and pay the amount they accepted from us or ask for a larger discount? If so, how do we negotiate? We'd rather not incur their wrath!

You wouldn't be asking for a larger discount as such, what you'd do is make an offer in Full and Final settlement of the account, and you'd normally start much lower than 80% (which would the be balance after a 20% discount). Do bear in mind making an offer like that would reset the statute barred clock as it acknowledges the debt. :clock: If you haven't paid this since 2009, you'd be over 4 years into SBd.

F&F offers have to be worded carefully and settled via a third party to avoid being pursued for the remainder of the alleged balance, as happened to me some years ago, before I knew better: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php?41122-Aktiv-Kapital-chasing-old-outstanding-balance-after-settlement-(

Have you paid anything after 2009? Who was the original loan with? What's the outstanding balance?

[Kolokial]

Re: 20% Discount

The loan wasn't taken out online so far as my mother recalls. The original Loan was with ShopaCheck, who are apparently also Welcome Finance, who my mother also has a second mortgage with....

The original amount is for around £1100.

Unfortunately, we're not in a position to make a full settlement offer, even if 50% was written off. If that is the case, should we just accept the 20% that they are willing to write off and go ahead with our proposed payment plan? (which they had already accepted) :doggieyes:

[Kolokial]

Re: 20% Discount

Bump. Anyone?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: 20% Discount

The loan wasn't taken out online so far as my mother recalls. The original Loan was with ShopaCheck, who are apparently also Welcome Finance, who my mother also has a second mortgage with....

The original amount is for around £1100.

Unfortunately, we're not in a position to make a full settlement offer, even if 50% was written off. If that is the case, should we just accept the 20% that they are willing to write off and go ahead with our proposed payment plan? (which they had already accepted) :doggieyes:

As it's from 2009, it would still be difficult to argue unenforceability, even without a signed agreement.

When you say proposed payment plan, is it a monthly plan you can afford? Or a full and final settlement? Because discounts are usually offered on the later, although 20% doesn't sound like much, when you consider they probably paid 10% of the alleged outstanding amount.

If the amount includes a lot of charges, etc., as it's often the case with that type of credit, you could use that argument to bargain. :thumb:

[Kolokial]

Re: 20% Discount

Yup! The payment plan is based on expenditure, so we can definitely afford the monthly payments.

The discount that has been offered is for both, either a full payment or for monthly payments. I'm not experienced with negotiating with these folks and am unsure how to argue the amount, although the amount borrowed was actually £300, the total amount to be paid back was meant to be £1400.

And based on what you've said that they bought the loan for 10%, of the outstanding amount, I actually don't think it's acceptable to be paying back 200+% of the original amount I think I'll start with that point.

Does the responsible lending code not cover this?

[Kolokial]

Re: 20% Discount

Here's a draft I've come up and will send soon, any pointers, or does it seem in order?

Dear Lowell,

Account No : 0000000

Thank you once again for remaining patient.

Upon receiving the CCA for the account 00000000, I notice that the original amount borrowed was in fact £400, and that the total amount payable is £1500, while charges added amount to £700. In light of this information I would like to put forward a new offer for the account 0000000. I propose a full and final settlement offer of £500, this offer is made on the clear understanding that, if accepted, neither you nor any associate company will take any other action to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that we will be released from any liability.

We also request that, if accepted, you will make an entry on a credit reference agency file relating to the above account as having been paid and the account closed. Payment can be made within 2 weeks of receiving your written agreement of this offer and method of payment.

We look forward to receiving your reply.

Your faithfully,

Kolokial

[wales01man]

Re: 20% Discount

Good luck,if they accept the offer it will help many others who are in the same position

[CleverClogs]

Re: 20% Discount

I may be a cynic,but, if Bowells are offering a 20% discount, that may suggest that they know there's something seriously wrong with this alleged debt.

Check the dates of the alleged agreement and of the terms and conditions - do they match, or are the T&C a year or two later than the agreement?

Finally, the letter does not seem to prevent Bowells from selling the rest of the account to another firm.

[Kolokial]

Re: 20% Discount

Thanks CleverClogs, I didn't realise that. I've stupidly sent it off already, if and when they respond I'll state that aren't permitted to pass the remaining debt on.

Regarding the CCA they have sent me, after checking it again I've noticed that none of the account numbers on the CCA match the ones that Lowell have sent me, even the 'original account number' they quote on the letter cannot be found on the CCA. Does this mean anything?

To me it would suggest that they've reconstituted the 'wrong' paperwork?

[Gorang]

Re: 20% Discount

Finally, the letter does not seem to prevent Bowells from selling the rest of the account to another firm.

neither you nor any associate company will take any other action

If they sold the remainder of the debt on, then would the buyer not then become an associate of the Lowells??

Could it not be argued that as the two companies will then have done business together they then have an association??
Hence the buyer then becomes an associate of Lowell's, therefore buyer can't chase the debt??

Or am I barking up the wrong tree with this?????

Edit
Well it is getting late so is quite poss I'm just barking lol

[CleverClogs]

Re: 20% Discount

I would consider another company of the Bowells Group to be "an associate company".

I would not consider an entirely separate company, such as Mucky Hall, to be an associate.

Are you an associate of your newsagent, poulterer, butcher, grocer or fruiterer? Yet you buy from them...

[FlamingParrot]

Re: 20% Discount

First of all, if the debt was just £300 to start with, I certainly wouldn't be offering more than that! :nono:

The problem I see with that letter is that it mentions 'associate companies' taking action, it doesn't exclude selling the alleged balance to a non-associate company such as any other debt purchaser not part of the Lowlife group.

if accepted, neither you nor any associate company will take any other action to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that we will be released from any liability.

[Kolokial]

Re: 20% Discount

Dang, well, I put forward £400 to them, and they flat out declined it. I then put forward £450, and the silly bugger comes back and says 'Your offer of £400 has been declined.' What a numpty, obviously isn't reading my emails correctly.

I've decided to point out that the original account number as issued from the original creditor, doesn't match the reconstituted version of the CCA they have sent me, and will put forward the offer of £450 again.

However before I compose this, does anybody know any legislation I can quote to light a fire under them? At the moment I'm thinking CPUTR, but I am still researching that aspect.

:santa2:

[josh1234]

Re: 20% Discount

dont pay lowells anything if they are offering a discount as one poster says they have no enforceability paperwork.have lowells bought the debt? if so ask them for deeds of assighmnet and deeds of novation and upon recieving such documents will enter into negotiations.if they havent bought the debt and are acting as agent only they have no powers to take you to court so ignore there threatograms.