Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

I have just sent the letter quoted above by FP to Shoosmiths since they threatened court action after I sent my CCA request
now I`m wondering should the CCA have gone to Arrow I`m a bit worried

I have replied on your thread: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...928#post386928

Basically, as long as BOTH Arrow and the solicitors they are using know about the CCA request being sent, it should be OK, that was the main point. :thumb:

Different firms word letters in different ways. The one from Shoosmiths seemed more direct in terms of litigation threats than the one from BL. :ohwell:
The important thing is that all parties have been informed of the CCA requests sent.

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Hi Guys
My CCA request was signed for by Arrow on the 14th November, but I've still not had anything back from them.
Should I chase them?
Thanks in advance!!
dc

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Hi Guys
My CCA request was signed for by Arrow on the 14th November, but I've still not had anything back from them.
Should I chase them?

No, they are in default of your request and the account is not enforceable till they comply. As Arrow were not the original lender, they will have to request the documents from them and that invariably takes longer than 14 days. With a bit of luck, you won't hear from them before Xmas! :26:

I assume you haven't heard from Shoosmiths either. If you do hear from either of them, post up here :typing: otherwise just let them snooze.

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

....

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Hi Guys, Happy New Year!

I've received the following from Arrow, dated 10th December.

Basically they acknowledge my CCA request, but they do not accept that they are the creditor. That said, they are willing to help by trying to source the CCA.

Should I be replying to them?

A million thanks in advance!

dc

[biondani]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

If they purchased the debt then surely they are now the creditor.

[Guest]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

If they purchased the debt then surely they are now the creditor.

Yes they are see Jones Vs link financial

[CleverClogs]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Basically they acknowledge my CCA request, but they do not accept that they are the creditor.

Which is nonsense, of course, but it seems curiously appropriate that they should try that flim-flam.

Even their name, Arrow Global, suggests a lot of balls. :grin:

That said, they are willing to help by trying to source the CCA.

As if they had a choice, if they ever hoped to enforce the alleged debt through the courts.

Should I be replying to them?

Not until they have defaulted on the request but have taken to making threats to sue you nevertheless.

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Hi All!

Well I've now heard back from Arrow, following my CCA Request. Please see the attached. I would be most grateful if someone could advise me, as I am unsure as to what I should do next?

Also, hot on the heels of Arrow's letter, I received another from BT, again attached.

I look forward to hearing from you guys, and thank you so much in advance!

dc

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Hi All!

Well I've now heard back from Arrow, following my CCA Request. Please see the attached. I would be most grateful if someone could advise me, as I am unsure as to what I should do next?

Also, hot on the heels of Arrow's letter, I received another from BT, again attached.

It's significant that Blake Lapthorne should have decided to write with offers to write off part of the outstanding amount right at the time they were informed that your CCA request had been complied with. If they were so sure of the enforceability of the account, why would they make such an offer?

The page with items 1 & 2 is not legible enough to read, but I noticed that Item 21 of the T&Cs (the ones in columns) says they no longer supply credit card cheques, yet the Financial and Related conditions refer to "Credit card and credit card cheques". The recon terms are dated 01/02. Does that tally when the time you opened the account? You should also look at the charges under item 13, did they charge £20? Because on the other set of T&Cs (the ones in columns), they claim to charge just £12 under item 5. :noidea: The APR on the barely legible page appears to be 14.9 vs 34 on the T&Cs. The two sets of terms are clearly not from the same time.

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Thanks for your reply FP!! Much appreciated!

The recon terms are dated 01/02. Does that tally when the time you opened the account?

I opened the account in March 2002

You should also look at the charges under item 13, did they charge £20?

Yes, on at least 3x occassions

The APR on the barely legible page appears to be 14.9 vs 34 on the T&Cs.

That is certainly what it looks to say


What do you suggest I reply with?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

What do you suggest I reply with?

How about this? :thumb:

I'm having trouble getting he paragraph spacing right but you get the picture...

Dear Sirs

Account No: XXXXXXXX

On XX/XX/XXXX I wrote requesting that you supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for the above account. In response to this request I was supplied a document that did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974), as you sent a reconstituted copy, which does not comply with current CCA legislation because without such agreement, I am unable to adjudge my position effectively. I would require a "true copy" of the actual agreement. The recent McGuffick and Carey cases confirmed that a lender should submit upon request a valid true copy of the original CCA and also went on to suggest that both the creditor and debtors name and address are clearly displayed - the Judge dealt with this point at paragraph 60 of his judgement when he said this:

"As a matter of common sense It is difficult to see how a copy of a document can omit the names of the parties. It might he thought that the address of the debtor, however, was immaterial, at least to the debtor, who can be assumed to know what it was at the time, if different from his present address. However, as noted above any application of the concept of materiality must not override the requirements of section 78 and the Copies Regulations properly understood. In my view it is clear that the name and address must be provided"

In MBNA v McCullagh; the Judge ruled;

"The terms and conditions are plainly not a copy of those on the original agreement. There may only be one difference identified (it is difficult to tell from the illegible copy of the original) but that is enough. The obligation is to provide "a copy of the executed agreement". This plainly cannot be a copy of the original agreement. It is not open to the claimant to say that the difference is 'de minimis'. They have to provide a copy of the original (reconstituted or otherwise)"

There are also several other recent cases that alleviate the Carey Judgment such as Hayes v HFC, at Blackpool county court in July 2010. She successfully overturned a charging order on her home. Judge Bell agreed that the reconstituted agreement was not accurate. Then you have the case of Kotecha v Phoenix in which Phoenix attempted to recover a debt owed on a HFC bank credit card. The appeal judges agreed the bank had not been able to supply an accurate copy of the original agreement.

Furthermore, some of the pages supplied appear to be an illegible photocopy of the Terms & Agreement. The prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974, are not at all visible and therefore the documents provided do not constitute a ‘true copy’. As you are no doubt aware, the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI/1557) states:

2 - Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms
(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the [background medium upon which the information is displayed].

The OFT has stipulated the following;Sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 outline the information creditors must provide to debtors under fixed-term, running account & Hire Agreements. Under these sections a debtor can pay £1 to get:

• a copy of their agreement
• copies of some of the other documents mentioned in their agreement
• a statement of account

If this information is not provided within 12 working days the debt becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor cannot:

• make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to
• get a court judgment against the debtor

As this account is clearly unenforceable, I expect you to write back and confirm that no further action will be taken and that the account is now closed and no further correspondence will take place.

Yours faithfully,

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Thanks FP, I will get this posted straightaway!

[dsc20030]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Hi Guys
Long time no post, which in this instance is good news! Well, I've had a another couple of letters.. (Note, I did not receive a reply to the letter I sent Arrow 19/02/2014. Everything has been silent since then)

I've just had a letter from Arrow, to confirm management of the account has been transferred to McManus Kearney
And I've had a letter from McManus Kearney asking that I complete and return an income and expenditure form, together with my proposal for payment

Should I write to them and explain I am still waiting on their client's reply to my letter of 19/02/14?

As always, your assistance is very much appreciated!

dc

[nemesis45]

Re: Does requesting a CCA acknowledge a debt?

Hi,
Yes good idea to let them know their client has ignored contact / not responded correctly to a CCA request and ignored the fact the recon agreement was non compliant.
To be bloody awkward I'd say as nothing has been forthcoming from your client I am currently unable to take this matter forward.
nem