Dealing with DCA's from Abroad

[AntFinland]

Hello, I was looking around and found many ”similar” cases but thought I would create my own thread and put down my situation to see if anyone can give some advice or just thoughts.

I took out a big loan with Lloyds TSB in 2005 and was paying it off until I moved to Finland about six years ago, after losing my job here, I went behind in my payments and Lloyds/TSB sent it to Zestdew who used Equidebt and I agreed to pay a minimum payment. Although I could test the situation and stop paying as I moved away the moral side of it made me carry on paying a minimum payment to them.

Recently Equidebt went bankrupt and after a short time Transcom seems to have taken over. It now seems I am far away from who I was originally paying. I started to get phone calls before even a written letter of change. They were demanding I passed security questions to identify myself… this got my back up as some stranger out of the blue, calling my and asking me to identify myself when I hadn’t even received a letter off them. I just told them to write to me and was told they won’t do this and I will get more phone calls. I stopped answering the phone. I thought that I might have a few more options available. After reading the forums on here I sent to them a “Prove I’m the Debtor” letter. I asked for proof and to stop calling me. Unfortunately I got a copy of the original forms, signed by myself and the bank. At least the phone calls have stopped for now, but I expect them to start again soon.

So, I think I have three choices left.

1. Call them or write and agree to minimum payments again, which will take me a long time to pay off.
2. Ignore them and see what happens next.
3. Ignore them and save up for a full and final payment.

So, if I choose option 2, what can they actually do apart from calling me or writing and I can always block the number. If I choose option 3, how much do I offer?

Is there any other options I am missing?

Just as a side note there was another credit card which went the same way but they went quiet and after a period of 6 months or so I received an email from a Finnish DCA who asked for the full payment, when I wrote back a few times offering to pay a minimum payment they never replied. I guess they just didn’t want my money J

Sorry this is so long, I just wanted to get as much information down at the first attempt.

Thanks for anyone who takes the time to read, even if you can’t offer any advice.

-AntFinland

[charitynjw]

Re: Dealing with DCA's from Abroad

Hi AntFinland,

Just for clarification on this thread, I believe in your 'hello' message you state that you currently live in Finland?

[AntFinland]

Re: Dealing with DCA's from Abroad

Hi Nobby,

Yes, and i have no plans to return. Not in the near future anyway.

[charitynjw]

Re: Dealing with DCA's from Abroad

Hi Ant,

I note your comment re a moral obligation.
The back-story is that, as far as I know, Transcom are a debt purchaser.
If so, they will have picked up the alleged debt for pence in the pound, especially as it seems to have been passed on from pillar to post.
Jurisdiction issues aside, what would be your preferred outcome?

[Guest]

Re: Dealing with DCA's from Abroad

HI

It is possible for uncontested judgments to be enforced via the European enforcement order.

http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l33190_en.htm

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Dealing with DCA's from Abroad

I thought that I might have a few more options available. After reading the forums on here I sent to them a “Prove I’m the Debtor” letter. I asked for proof and to stop calling me. Unfortunately I got a copy of the original forms, signed by myself and the bank. At least the phone calls have stopped for now, but I expect them to start again soon.

The prove it letter is different from a request for a copy of your credit agreement under s.77 of the CCA, it doesn't have the same legal standing, which is why I'd usually suggest the CCA request in cases where the debtor is aware of the debt and just wants to evaluate the paperwork the creditor has for the purpose of enforceability, while the prove it letter would be used when they really have no idea what the DCA is talking about.

As they sent you the paperwork, could you scan it (or take a picture with a digital camera or phone), and post it up here after removing your personal details?

So, I think I have three choices left.
1. Call them or write and agree to minimum payments again, which will take me a long time to pay off.
2. Ignore them and see what happens next.
3. Ignore them and save up for a full and final payment.

Whatever you do, don't call them.

Post up the documents you have to get an idea. You say this is a loan from 2005, did you apply online?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Dealing with DCA's from Abroad

Hi Nobby,

Yes, and i have no plans to return. Not in the near future anyway.

I take it you don't own any property in the UK so they couldn't secure the debt through a charging order, even if they obtained judgment.

HI

It is possible for uncontested judgments to be enforced via the European enforcement order.

http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l33190_en.htm

There is no indication that judgment has been obtained or even that legal action is impending.

[Guest]

Re: Dealing with DCA's from Abroad

There is no indication that judgment has been obtained or even that legal action is impending.

I presumed that the enforceablity of a prospective judgment would be a concern for the OP, also note that the order refers to uncontested claims, again this would presumably refer to default judgments, which is something that the OP should be aware of.

[AntFinland]

Re: Dealing with DCA's from Abroad

I take it you don't own any property in the UK so they couldn't secure the debt through a charging order, even if they obtained judgment.

There is no indication that judgment has been obtained or even that legal action is impending.

I don't own anything in Uk and as i communicated with all parties from Finland so there is no need for them to try contacting me in UK. Nothing ever got so far as court rulings, I tried, to keep up with payments even when i moved, and that's what i mean when i say the "Moral obligation"

Hi Ant,

I note your comment re a moral obligation.
The back-story is that, as far as I know, Transcom are a debt purchaser.
If so, they will have picked up the alleged debt for pence in the pound, especially as it seems to have been passed on from pillar to post.
Jurisdiction issues aside, what would be your preferred outcome?

I do understand that Transcom don't care personally and will make much more money out of this, but my principled/moral side of me says "You got in this mes, now pay the price" and i was doing that until the debt changed hands again and the woman on the phone pxxxed me off with her high and mighty i am God attitude. The preferred outcome would be to clear my conscience but why go short every month when all i have to do is ignore a few letters or phone calls. But that would still play on my mind, so a full and final settlement when i raise the money would probably suit me best.

BUT, saying that... i am not stupid and i don't wish to pay these people money if they have no legal right to it, that's why i sent a "Prove I'm The Debtor" letter, even though it seems i was mistaken to send that one. Photo copies will be posted when i get the chance


Hope i have not missed any questions and thank you all so much for your quick responses!

-Ant

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Dealing with DCA's from Abroad

I don't own anything in Uk and as i communicated with all parties from Finland so there is no need for them to try contacting me in UK. Nothing ever got so far as court rulings, I tried, to keep up with payments even when i moved, and that's what i mean when i say the "Moral obligation"

I do understand that Transcom don't care personally and will make much more money out of this, but my principled/moral side of me says "You got in this mes, now pay the price" and i was doing that until the debt changed hands again and the woman on the phone pxxxed me off with her high and mighty i am God attitude. The preferred outcome would be to clear my conscience but why go short every month when all i have to do is ignore a few letters or phone calls. But that would still play on my mind, so a full and final settlement when i raise the money would probably suit me best.

I can see where you're coming from, however, I wouldn't want you to feel guilty for not paying. First of all, from what you say, this debt has been sold, probably more than once. When a debt is sold, the debt purchaser usually pays around 10% of the alleged outstanding amount. Some have been sold for as little as 3%. At the same time, the lender writes off the balance as a loss for tax purposes. For the bank, it's a win-win situation from all sides: when they first gave you credit, all they did was make a database entry on your account, they didn't actually give you any of their own money. Thanks to fractional reserve banking, when they 'lend' you money, they are actually creating money out of thin air.

See this for reference: http://www.learningmarkets.com/under...banking-system

As you can see, the only one who stands to be parted from their own money is the debtor.

BUT, saying that... i am not stupid and i don't wish to pay these people money if they have no legal right to it, that's why i sent a "Prove I'm The Debtor" letter, even though it seems i was mistaken to send that one. Photo copies will be posted when i get the chance

You were not mistaken, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and the approach you took is one of them. I prefer the other approach because it has more legal standing from the start.

When a DCA is chasing you for a debt they have bought, they should supply you with a notice of assignment to prove they are the new owners, otherwise anyone could get hold of your details and write/call asking for money.

Did you ever receive such a notice?

See this for reference: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ent#post375164

[AntFinland]

Re: Dealing with DCA's from Abroad

I can see where you're coming from, however, I wouldn't want you to feel guilty for not paying. First of all, from what you say, this debt has been sold, probably more than once. When a debt is sold, the debt purchaser usually pays around 10% of the alleged outstanding amount. Some have been sold for as little as 3%. At the same time, the lender writes off the balance as a loss for tax purposes. For the bank, it's a win-win situation from all sides: when they first gave you credit, all they did was make a database entry on your account, they didn't actually give you any of their own money. Thanks to fractional reserve banking, when they 'lend' you money, they are actually creating money out of thin air.

See this for reference: http://www.learningmarkets.com/under...banking-system

As you can see, the only one who stands to be parted from their own money is the debtor.

You were not mistaken, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and the approach you took is one of them. I prefer the other approach because it has more legal standing from the start.

When a DCA is chasing you for a debt they have bought, they should supply you with a notice of assignment to prove they are the new owners, otherwise anyone could get hold of your details and write/call asking for money.

Did you ever receive such a notice?

See this for reference: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ent#post375164

True, i guess Banks don't do too badly in life


Attached are the letters i received from Transcom and then the first page of my credit agreement

1st was opening letter after they had called me, but it did take several weeks to arrive, second was cover after i sent the "Prove I'm The Debtor" letter

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: Dealing with DCA's from Abroad

So what's Finland like nowadays? Where about are you based?

I remember banks being much more efficient than here, just like in Germany. Unenforceability would never be a possibility. It is nice when you can get an ATM card over the counter straight away, though.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Dealing with DCA's from Abroad

Attached are the letters i received from Transcom and then the first page of my credit agreement

1st was opening letter after they had called me, but it did take several weeks to arrive, second was cover after i sent the "Prove I'm The Debtor" letter

I can't really read the agreement because it has been cut off around the edges. You say this is the first page, is there a second? Can we see it? The devil's in the detail. As the agreement was entered into before April 2007, it should have all the prescribed terms on it.

Having said that, in order to challenge enforceability you'd need to send a s.77 CCA request.

[Guest]

Re: Dealing with DCA's from Abroad

If this loan is for over 25k it would be unregulated, there is something on the top of the agreement which says ?????? greater than (>)25K but the first bit is covered by the tape.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Dealing with DCA's from Abroad

If this loan is for over 25k it would be unregulated, there is something on the top of the agreement which says ?????? greater than (>)25K but the first bit is covered by the tape.

When he said "a big loan", I didn't realise how big, if you zoom in, you'll find the amount of credit is Ł36k, so you're absolutely right, it would be unregulated.