Bailiffs have been, had to pay £300 for a mistake by the courts - PLEASE HELP

[Liam88]

hi all,

hoping someone can assist me on a courts/bailiff matter.

i had been recently paying off my court fines £20 per month, unfortunately in June i missed a payment and was unaware, Julys money did go out but i was then told on July 11th by the court fines department because id missed a payment i had to pay the remaining amount of £265 in full, i said ok and rang up the following morning (12th July) to pay the full amount of £265 via debit card, i did this by speaking to a lady there. i assumed that was the end of the matter.

however, i have today had a visit from 2 bailiffs from Collectica for the amount of £565, which they broke down to my £265 fine and a further £300 in costs to Collectica, i foolishly let them in as it was raining and i initially thought it was a mistake on their part as i had paid the fine 3 weeks prior so didnt think there would be a problem.

i explained that i had paid the balance of £265 in full to the courts on the 12th July but when one of the bailiffs rang the courts to confirm this they had no knowledge of me paying the £265 and stated i still owed it, however the bailiffs chose to take my word that i had paid it as i showed them proof of a bank statement stating a payment for £265 was made on the 12th July to the courts however i still had to pay the £300 to them, as i peacefully let them into the property and had 2 young children in the next room i knew i had to pay it so i did. they then said that if i was lying about paying the £265 to the courts that they would be back. i said i would ring the courts, then asked for one of the baliffs numbers so i could ring them after and update them.

ofcourse i rang the courts straight after they left and demanded to know why they have no recollection of my payment on their system and why i have had to fork out £300 under duress, firstly it turned out i was speaking to the lady who took my payment on the 12th July, she went onto to call the baillifs liars and claiming they hadnt contacted them (which turns out they had in fact rang them and she was lying herself), she then attempted to make out the fault lay with me but by this time id had enough and requested that she simply go and check if indeed the payment of £265 i made to them on 12th July was on the system, she came back very quiet and said no it wasnt on the system and that it was never updated at time of the payment being taken, she then said she would contact Collectica and tell them to let the drivers know i had in fact made the payment and then when i questioned if i could claim the £300 back as it was clearly her mistake she said that she would speak to a manager and ring me back tomorrow.

now, id like to know a few things please,

firstly, as this clearly was an admin error by the courts in that they had failed to correctly follow their procedures in that they hadnt updated their system to show i had in fact paid what was owed which then caused them to get Collectica involved and cost me £300 from their mistake, i am owed this money back? can i even claim it back?

secondly i am very upset and unhappy that i was put in a situation that was through no fault of my own in that had 2 bailiffs in my house threatening to take my goods, threatening they would kick the door down if i were to lock one bailiff in the house when the other went to get a bottle of water out the the car etc all in all not a very pleasant experience when i had 2 very young children in the next room (7 months and 25 months)

thirdly, what further action can i take (legal? involving a solicitor if necessary) if when the lady rings back tomorrow and offers no help or a no solution in claiming this £300 back.


thank in advance

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiffs have been, had to pay £300 for a mistake by the courts - PLEASE HELP

Hi and welcome to Legal Beagles.

From what you have said, it sounds like you received a Further Steps Notice and paid the outstanding amount on receipt of this. However, one of the court staff has now admitted to failing to update their records to show you had paid the outstanding balance. As a result, you have incurred loss of £300 due to their failure to exercise reasonable care in respect of record-keeping. I don't feel you can blame Collectica, in this instance, as they were acting on instructions from the court.

The first port of call is the Court Manager. If this brings no joy, then the Regional Senior Enforcement Manager (SEM) may need to be contacted and then escalated up through the various levels of management. However, every effort should be made to resolve this at court level.

You have already paid the fine in full and, therefore, enforcement was, in my opinion, unlawful in the circumstances, albeit due to an error on the court's part. A full and immediate refund of the £300 is something you should try and secure. As for any other sums, you will need to consult with a legal professional.

[Liam88]

Re: Bailiffs have been, had to pay £300 for a mistake by the courts - PLEASE HELP

thanks for that info, will be useful tomorrow, i will report back tomorrow and let you know how the call goes with either the lady at the courts or the manager.

[labman]

Re: Bailiffs have been, had to pay £300 for a mistake by the courts - PLEASE HELP

I nearly agree with Bluebottle, but it would depend on when the court acted. The missed payment in June is what triggered enforcement action and a demand for the full amount. The question is, did the court deploy the bailiffs before you paid in full, or after you had paid in full?

If it was before you paid in full, then I believe you would be liable for an £85 Admin fee, but NOT the £215 Attendance Fee as paying the fine negated the need for any attendance to take place.

Obviously if you can get the full £300 back, all the better, but just be aware of the above.

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiffs have been, had to pay £300 for a mistake by the courts - PLEASE HELP

If it's a bungle of the magnitude you have outlined, i.e. potentially unlawful enforcement, it will, in all probability, be the Court Manager. Unless they are totally without morals, expect some grovelling to occur.

[Liam88]

Re: Bailiffs have been, had to pay £300 for a mistake by the courts - PLEASE HELP

with everything that's gone on today, worrying etc ive completely forgotten about that and yes you're right the courts must of deployed Collectica before i paid in full as i had a letter from them on the 11th July which lead me to ring them collectica straight away to query the debt as at that point i didnt know a payment had been missed and explain the situation to be then told to ring the courts to sort it in which i did. apologies for missing that bit out, its been quite a stressful day.

so i would need to acknowledge that im responsible for an £85 admin fee but not the call out fee as it was clearly unnecessary due to the courts error?

[labman]

Re: Bailiffs have been, had to pay £300 for a mistake by the courts - PLEASE HELP

with everything that's gone on today, worrying etc ive completely forgotten about that and yes you're right the courts must of deployed Collectica before i paid in full as i had a letter from them on the 11th July which lead me to ring them collectica straight away to query the debt as at that point i didnt know a payment had been missed and explain the situation to be then told to ring the courts to sort it in which i did. apologies for missing that bit out, its been quite a stressful day.

so i would need to acknowledge that im responsible for an £85 admin fee but not the call out fee as it was clearly unnecessary due to the courts error?

Potentially yes, but I'd still try for the full £300 if you can get it, afterall, the did make other errors as well.

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiffs have been, had to pay £300 for a mistake by the courts - PLEASE HELP

Right. Let's get this straight. Did you receive a letter from the court, called a Further Steps Notice, asking you to bring the fine account up to date otherwise further action would be taken and you paid the outstanding amount on receipt of this? Or was it when Collectica wrote to you? If no Further Steps Notice was received, questions needs to be asked.

[Liam88]

Re: Bailiffs have been, had to pay £300 for a mistake by the courts - PLEASE HELP

ok checking the one and only letter ive received regarding this whole matter which is from Collectica dated 5th July received by me on the 11th July states "NOTICE OF DISTRESS WARRANT" however no where does it say "further steps notice"? should i have received that before this one?

again apologies for missing that info out in the original post.

[labman]

Re: Bailiffs have been, had to pay £300 for a mistake by the courts - PLEASE HELP

Yes - very definitely. See here:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...s-Courts-Fines

[Liam88]

Re: Bailiffs have been, had to pay £300 for a mistake by the courts - PLEASE HELP

will give that a good read now thanks.

have to say this is sounding to be an absolute farse, regardless to who rings me tomorrow i will ask to speak to the manager and outline the fact that,

1) i was not sent any correspondence from the courts themselves namely a further steps notice
2) as i settled the remaining balance with themselves promptly and as a result of their procedural error it caused me to foot a bill from a bailiff attendance that was unnecessary and unlawful.

so in your opinion ive got a strong case to be reimburse from the facts ive said? are there any particular things i should say when i speak to him other than already mentioned?

thanks.

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiffs have been, had to pay £300 for a mistake by the courts - PLEASE HELP

The Further Steps Notice is a legal requirement. No FSN, no enforcement allowed. If enforcement does go ahead without an FSN being issued, the enforcement action is potentially unlawful ab initio (from the outset). I would ask to see a copy of the actual court warrant from Collectica. They know they must allow you to see it. It is not a matter of "at their discretion".

[CleverClogs]

Re: Bailiffs have been, had to pay £300 for a mistake by the courts - PLEASE HELP

I nearly agree with Bluebottle,

[Liam88]

Re: Bailiffs have been, had to pay £300 for a mistake by the courts - PLEASE HELP

excellent news, have spoken to the manager at the courts this morning (she was actually due to ring me) i outlined that i didn't receive an FSN and that any action taken normally past that point would be unlawful and she agreed and couldn't apologise enough, she blamed this on an automated procedure that clearly failed on this occasion and went to say that they are reviewing their procedures as a result of this, she also apologised that the system wasnt manually updated on the 12th July to show i made the payment which would of negated the need for the distress warrant and bailiffs if that was done properly.

as for the £300 i was forced to pay to the bailiffs, the manager at the courts said she has been chasing that up with Collectica and that a refund has progressed and just needs to be authorised by Collectica management now so all in all im very happy with the outcome.


a MASSIVE thanks to Bluebottle and Labman, really appreciate the help and advice.


cheers everyone.

[labman]

Re: Bailiffs have been, had to pay £300 for a mistake by the courts - PLEASE HELP

Always good to see a positive outcome - well done for sticking up for your rights! :beagle: