Lowell/barclaycard

[bmw2602]

Hi peeps, I wrote to lowells requesting a cca request as they said they bought an old barclaycard debt, they have wrote back with a letter stating that they have attached reconstituted copy of the credit agreement that i entered into with them which they confirm you would have signed prior to the granting of credit with you, but i never signed any agreement i took out the card well before 2005, they also state that they have enclosed statements from BC but no orignal signed credit agreement from them, they say they are not obliged to send one and say they have now fully satisfied their obligations required following my request for a CCA and now want payment, but i don't think they have do they have to send one a signed CA ?, any idea's guy's what to do next, i have attached letters they sent me, thanks in advance

[CleverClogs]

Re: Lowell/barclaycard

they have wrote back with a letter stating that they have attached reconstituted copy of the credit agreement that i entered into with them which they confirm you would have signed prior to the granting of credit with you, but i never signed any agreement i took out the card well before 2005,

capita eorum in ano sunt

they also state that they have enclosed statements from BC but no orignal signed credit agreement from them, they say they are not obliged to send one

In that, they are quite correct - under Waksman, all they are required to do under a s.78 request is to provide a reconstituted "twue copy" of the executed agreement.

But the Leeds losers do not appear to have done that. All they supplied was the obverse and reverse sides of a booklet of Barclaycard Terms and Conditions that seems to have been published in July 2002 and reprinted in January 2003. There is nothing in the files I have yet seen that looks anything like an agreement.

When do you expect to get the SD for this?

capita eorum in ano sunt - They have their heads up their arses
Obverse - the "front" side of a document, medal or coin
Reverse - the "rear" side of a document, medal or coin

[Inca]

Re: Lowell/barclaycard

Clogs,,,stick to English sunbeam,,there's a love msl:

[CleverClogs]

Re: Lowell/barclaycard

Clogs,,,stick to English sunbeam,,there's a love msl:

I'm sorry - I neglected to post the glossary.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell/barclaycard

Hi peeps, I wrote to lowells requesting a cca request as they said they bought an old barclaycard debt, they have wrote back with a letter stating that they have attached reconstituted copy of the credit agreement that i entered into with them which they confirm you would have signed prior to the granting of credit with you, but i never signed any agreement i took out the card well before 2005, they also state that they have enclosed statements from BC but no orignal signed credit agreement from them, they say they are not obliged to send one and say they have now fully satisfied their obligations required following my request for a CCA and now want payment, but i don't think they have do they have to send one a signed CA ?

They haven’t sent you an agreement at all, reconstituted or not! :nono: That is just a photocopy of terms and conditions, but there’s nothing there linking you to them, nothing to suggest you agreed to those terms. Barcraps are notoriously bad at retrieving agreements, so they are trying to fob you off with terms.

You say above you never signed any agreement, do you remember how you applied for this card? If it was online before 2005, you should still have received an agreement to sign. Your recollection is important! :thumb:

[bmw2602]

Re: Lowell/barclaycard

I don't remember signing an agreement it was a long time ago, Not sure i think it was an small application leaflet addressed to me that came in the post with just a couple of questions on it filled it in and sent off that was it then i recieved card

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell/barclaycard

I don't remember signing an agreement it was a long time ago, Not sure i think it was an small application leaflet addressed to me that came in the post with just a couple of questions on it filled it in and sent off that was it then i recieved card

In view of their inadequate response, you could reply with the following:

Dear Sirs

Account No/Reference No: [ENTER NUMBER]

On [DATE] I wrote requesting a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account. In response to this request I was supplied a document that can only be described as Terms & Conditions - I must ask, since when did Terms become a legal document; namely a Consumer Credit Agreement that should, by rights, contain several Prescribed Terms? As the Terms & Conditions did not comply with my CCA Request, nor the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974), this account is unenforceable and will remain so until you comply fully and properly to my request.

Whilst I appreciate and understand the provision of the recent Carey v HSBC case that stipulates a reconstituted agreement can be provided, it does not say you can simply send some generic random terms. Plus, it should be noted I am disputing the actual existence of such an original which means the Carey case is irrelevant as without one the account would still be deemed unenforceable. Carey only went to prove that if you could not provide an original, for whatever reason, but had proof on your systems/records that certain conditions were in place at that time then a recon could be submitted only in-so-far as to satisfy your s.78 request. If you do not have an original then a recon cannot be produced; whereas sending Terms completely fails in its entirety.

The recent McGuffick and Carey cases confirmed that a lender should submit upon request a valid true copy of the original CCA and also went on to suggest that both the creditor and debtors name and address are clearly displayed - the Judge dealt with this point at paragraph 60 of his judgement when he said this:

"As a matter of common sense It is difficult to see how a copy of a document can omit the names of the parties. It might he thought that the address of the debtor, however, was immaterial, at least to the debtor, who can be assumed to know what it was at the time, if different from his present address. However, as noted above any application of the concept of materiality must not override the requirements of section 78 and the Copies Regulations properly understood. In my view it is clear that the name and address must be provided"

In MBNA v McCullagh; the Judge ruled;

"The terms and conditions are plainly not a copy of those on the original agreement. There may only be one difference identified (it is difficult to tell from the illegible copy of the original) but that is enough. The obligation is to provide "a copy of the executed agreement". This plainly cannot be a copy of the original agreement. It is not open to the claimant to say that the difference is 'de minimis'. They have to provide a copy of the original (reconstituted or otherwise)"

There are also several other recent cases that alleviate the Carey Judgment such as Hayes v HFC, at Blackpool county court in July 2010. She successfully overturned a charging order on her home. Judge Bell agreed that the reconstituted agreement was not accurate. Then you have the case of Kotecha v Phoenix in which Phoenix attempted to recover a debt owed on a HFC bank credit card. The appeal judges agreed the bank had not been able to supply an accurate copy of the original agreement.

The OFT Guidance clearly states that lenders would be acting unfairly, and potentially in breach of their consumer credit licenses, if they misled borrowers by:

• hiding or disguising the fact that there was never a proper signed agreement in the first place
• providing only a copy of the current terms and conditions, not the original ones

Similarly, in line with recent OFT Guidance surrounding Unenforceability, I presume you're aware that the OFT has stipulated the following;

Sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 outline the information creditors must provide to debtors under fixed-term, running account & Hire Agreements. Under these sections a debtor can pay £1 to get:

• a copy of their agreement
• copies of some of the other documents mentioned in their agreement
• a statement of account

If this information is not provided within 12 working days the debt becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor cannot:

• make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to
• get a court judgment against the debtor

As this account is clearly unenforceable, I expect you to write back and confirm that no further action will be taken and that the account is now closed and no further correspondence will take place.

Yours faithfully,

[CleverClogs]

Re: Lowell/barclaycard

To be "signed" using a handwriting font in a different colour?

As this account is clearly unenforceable, I expect you to serve a Statutory Demand which my lawyers will enjoy getting set aside at your expense.

I've fixed your post for you. :rofl:

[bmw2602]

Re: Lowell/barclaycard

In view of their inadequate response, you could reply with the following:

Thanks FlamingParrot I will send it. I have just noticed that the barclaycard letter they sent me is fake it's not an original letter from BC I wonder if they wrote it themselves and passed it off as if it was from BC to make it look real.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell/barclaycard

Thanks FlamingParrot I will send it. I have just noticed that the barclaycard letter they sent me is fake it's not an original letter from BC I wonder if they wrote it themselves and passed it off as if it was from BC to make it look real.

This being Lowlifes, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest!! :sad: :sad: :sad:

[bmw2602]

Re: Lowell/barclaycard

In view of their inadequate response, you could reply with the following:

Hi all, sent a letter as FlamingParrot suggested no respone regarding CCA request, but did recieve a letter from them saying they are going to take further action possibly an SD i still think that they have not satisfied my request for a copy of the CCA request which they say they have not sure what to do now do i contact them or wait for the possible SD to arrive, thanks :help:

[CleverClogs]

Re: Lowell/barclaycard

Hi all, sent a letter as FlamingParrot suggested no response regarding CCA request, but did receive a letter from the Leeds losers saying they are going to take further action possibly an SD which should be just as remunerative for Cel as their previous attempts at playing Silly Buggers.

I've amended your post for you. msl:

[fedupnow]

Re: Lowell/barclaycard

I am at the same stage with these lowlifes, insist they have complied but only sent Ts and Cs. Have you had any further response from them?

[bmw2602]

Re: Lowell/barclaycard

I am at the same stage with these lowlifes, insist they have complied but only sent Ts and Cs. Have you had any further response from them?

Hi Yes only about payment and threatening legal action, sent another letter stating they still haven't complied with my CCA request only resopnse i got was a threatening letter demanding payment so they are ignoring my request still, but im still waiting ! :noidea:

[bmw2602]

Re: Lowell/barclaycard

Just a wee update got a letter from Red DCA now who lowells has passed on to, again demanding payment threatening legal action, still awaiting reply regarding my CCA request no joy ! :der: