Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

[bluebottle]

Re: Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

Some PPCs are well-known for misrepresenting the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 in order to extort money from motorists. Not only is this illegal, it adds weight to the argument that their actions are bringing the law into disrepute. As stated previously in this thread, the onus is on Civil Enforcement to prove they have grounds and, indeed, a right in law to make the demand. If they cannot, they are skating on very thin ice. Attempting to enforce such a demand by means of threats means they are through the very thin ice and floundering in the water.

[enquirer]

Re: Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

... coprocephalic ...

Ah ... a very similar condition to helioproctosis.

[bluebottle]

Re: Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

Ah ... a very similar condition to helioproctosis.

Sounds painful, whatever it is!

[mervyng2]

Re: Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

HI
Is the letter you received an N1 ( the county court document) or is it a letter before action from the parking firm? Is Peterborough you local CC ?

guys i received a letter similar to this case but with claim number, issue date and other documents attached. this comes after 1 year of my last letter to pay the parking fee which i ignored cos it looked soo fake and copy pasted. i dont mind sending the pics if anyone can tell me if this is genuine and requires further ignoring or attention. pls help thanks!!

[gravytrain]

Re: Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

guys i received a letter similar to this case but with claim number, issue date and other documents attached. this comes after 1 year of my last letter to pay the parking fee which i ignored cos it looked soo fake and copy pasted. i dont mind sending the pics if anyone can tell me if this is genuine and requires further ignoring or attention. pls help thanks!!

Could you give a little more detail about the original claim, you say it the N1 you received has a clam number, does it have a court stamp on it and does it contain the associated paperwork(N9s etc)

[mervyng2]

Re: Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

I received a parking notice from these people for parking too long in a retail park, firstly i think it was harsh. I was shopping in the retail park then me and my family went to pizza hut for lunch which is in the same retail park. It was my first time there (in Ipswich) and I did not notice the parking restrictions as I thought its a retail park! None of them have these sort of restrictions where i live! Anyway, having looked on the internet i took advice to ignore letters. Now i have just returned home after a couple of weeks of not being home and have a letter saying a court date i set for 26th February in Peterborough and could result in my bank account being frozen etc and the original fine of £75 will now be £450 in total with costs. Can they really do this?? I would like to add the reason I didnt pay it is I am out of work and am an undischarged bankrupt of 8 months. My home is being repossesed in a week and this is just the last thing i need. Can someone please give me some urgent advice and point me in the direction of my legal rights in this? Can they take an already bankrupt to court again??? PLEASE HELP!!

i have attached some snapshots of the ltter i received today!! the first two pages are printed in yellow paper and the rest is in white paper. can u tell me if it looks genuine? shall i continue to ignore them? this letter comes after more than a year after of similar previously ignored letter. pls help thanks!!

[gravytrain]

Re: Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

yes it looks like a claim to me.

It is getting a bit late now, don't worry a bout this it can be sorted. I take you intend to defend, if this were me I would acknowledge service and tick defend.

This will give you 28 days to reply. I am not an expert in these, because frankly we don't see many, but there are people on here who are, I do not think that they will be able to show that a contract was made, and for the rest you put them to proof. There is also the insolvency issue.

There will be case law, we need to look it up and you can bet your life that there will be similar thread or someone will come along that already has. So try not to worry.

[gravytrain]

Re: Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

Meanwhile have a look here it may make you feel better

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=46975

[bluebottle]

Re: Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

Meanwhile have a look here it may make you feel better

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=46975

Ideal, GT. I've just advised someone on another thread with a claim from CEL to go to Pepipoo.

[cherpont]

Re: Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

thanks so much for your help! I agree i think its a scare tactic and im glad found and joined this website today!

Hi, I have just had my Northampton Couny Court Claim form sent to me to do with Civil Enforcement Ltd. WHAT SHOULD I DO NOW??? PLEASE HELP??

[labman]

Re: Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

Hi, I have just had my Northampton Couny Court Claim form sent to me to do with Civil Enforcement Ltd. WHAT SHOULD I DO NOW??? PLEASE HELP??

I've replied on your other thread.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...n-County-Court

Have a look at the advice given above, which is pretty much what I've put on your other thread.

[cherpont]

Re: Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

Hi, I have read lots on here about ignoring all these demands from Civil Enforcement Ltd. But I received a genuine court claim in the post the other day. Can somebody please help with what to write for my defence as they now want £350.00 plus costs if I lose.
Thank you Mike.

[Sapphire]

Re: Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

Mike as I've said on the other threads you have posted on, please hang on till those who know best arrive online, they will be able to assist you.

[VinceSamios]

Re: Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

Guys, I'm in the "taken to court" boat... but let me share some experience.


First of all I'm not a lawyer however I run my own companies and I've been to small claims, as well as patents county court before. I'd rate my layman knowledge as fairly comprehensive.


1. Any Civil Enforcement stuff will be small claims, unless you've not paid for £6k worth of parking.
2. LEGAL COSTS CAN'T BE CLAIMED IN SMALL CLAIMS CASES!!!! They've added "£50 in legal expenses" to my bill, which they couldn't recover.
3. I completely agree that nobody should admit they were driving, in fact in my case it's impossible that I was driving and didn't pay for parking.
4. It is uneconomical for these companies to represent themselves on a defended case, so it's generally uneconomical for them to pursue any defended case (unless you admit you were driving, then you're up the proverbial creek) and probably even undefended cases because they still need to prove a contract (although thats more 50:50)
5. CEL needs to act reasonably in dealing with the dispute, so they have to had made proactive efforts to help you identify the driver, they have to be open to discussion, etc. From my own experience they are none of these things. So worst case scenario you could argue the maximum recoverable amount should be the £30 fine, since they didn't allow you any way to query the dispute with them, which would be the reasonable thing to do.
6. I filed a defence for a claim, and immediately received a threatening letter which stated "As you will appreciate costs will now escalate and we reserve our rights in this respect" - it made me snort - they cannot claim legal costs.
7. On the other hand, if they are unsuccessful in their claim, YOU CAN CLAIM reasonable travel and accommodation costs in attending and defending a small claims case. In my last small claims case, I got £250 for attending.
8. Since you are an individual being claimed against by a company, you can apply to have the case heard in your local court. This alone makes it uneconomical for CEL to send someone to represent them in court, which essentially means you'll win by default.


TLDR: They have to act reasonably, they aren't. They are posturing. It's uneconomical for them to pursue it.


My defence for those interest read as follows:


In the first instance the defendant notes no evidence in any form has been filed, this makes it very difficult for the defendant to assess and defend the claim. The defendant also has no knowledge of any person using his vehicle having been in the alleged place at the alleged time. As such, the below is an account of events pertaining to the defendants attempts to contact the claimant to resolve the claim, and somewhat more a hypothetical discussion of potential circumstances rather than a defence per se.
1. I have made repeated attempts to contact Civil Enforcement Ltd, going to great lengths to attempt to speak to somebody, however it appears impossible to contact this company. I have made more than reasonable attempts to make contact and strongly feel the Claimants are acting unreasonably in stone walling such communications. I have attempted communications by phone, and responded to letters by post. If there was a way to contact the Claimants it is my firm belief this dispute would have been ironed out long ago.
2. An unreasonably long period of time elapsed between the alleged parking contract, and notification of a dispute, by which point in time no individual could reasonably be expected to retain a parking docket. The reasonable assumption being if one has paid for parking no issue will arise, and further there is a general expectation to receive notification on the windshield rather than by post months later.
3. I regularly receive family visitors from Australia and The Netherlands who often make use of my vehicle to go “sight seeing”, the location of the car park is at one such tourist attraction and I cannot recall who may have borrowed my vehicle on this date. As such I don’t believe the alleged contract was with myself, as the owner of the vehicle, but to my knowledge not the driver. I’ve asked the claimant repeatedly, via post, to help me identify the driver.
4. The claimants offered to provide a photo of the driver for a “fee”, however the burden of proof being on the claimant, I felt it unreasonable for the Claimant to attempt to generate income in order for me to establish the integrity of their claim. Since the claimant was prepared to send multiple printed documents, it would also seem reasonable to send an additional printed page of said photo, in which case I may have been able to point them in the right direction or even pay their initial demand of payment on my own or another persons behalf. I believe this initial demand was for £30. I made proactive attempts to help the claimant resolve this dispute immediately, however only received additional letters demanding increased sums.
5. It is, in my belief, impossible that any person using my vehicle would not pay for parking. As such it may be the case that the parking payment machine was not functioning correctly or it is also possible a mistake was made when entering a registration number. Once again the burden of proof lies on the claimants to prove each of their parking payment machines were actually working, and that no payment was made with a registration number which may have been mistakenly entered.
It is my understanding this parking facility requires visitors to enter their car registration number, and it is my categorical belief that, if the parking payment machines were working correctly and the alleged contract existed, such a registration number also exists in transaction records, or a striking similar registration number will appear in the log.
It is however also possible, my visitors not being familiar with my vehicle registration number, they may have miss-typed the registration number (it is easy to miss-see or miss-remember NK as MK for example) or entirely miss-remembered a registration number and instead entered one for another vehicle. I also know many of my Dutch visitors struggle with comprehension of written English and it is quite possible they may not have correctly followed instructions on such a machine, or understood the terms of the proposed contract, and may have entered a different registration number. Each of these points I was hoping to discuss with the claimant in the first instance, in order to clarify whether or not the drivers contract was met but not correctly recorded.
Having a camera capable of taking a picture of the driver of a car, it also stands to reason the Claimant will have CCTV footage showing that a driver of my vehicle did indeed stand at the parking payment machine, and make a payment.
In any of the above circumstances where the driver may have made an honest mistake, the driver did not unreasonably refuse to pay but may have paid but made a simple error, which doesn’t constitute a breach of contract.
6. For the above reasons, the Defendant requires the Claimant to produce the following evidence:
a. Photographic evidence of the vehicle entering the car park
b. CCTV footage of payment machines around this time
c. Records of all transactions taking place within 20 minutes of the vehicle allegedly entering the car park (in case the ANPR camera and payment machines are not chronologically in sync)
d. Records of all correspondence allegedly sent to the Defendant (as some documents referred to in previous correspondence were either never sent, or never arrived)
e. Evidence that a method of communication is made available in the circumstance that a vehicle owner believes either a driver of the Claimant has made an honest mistake. (ie. An advertised phone number, since mail receives no response)

[VinceSamios]

Re: Being taken to court by civil enforcement ltd tomorrow!!! Help!!

Latest letter for your amusement... I genuinely snorted at this one.

The psychology behind this is interesting - if they've filed the claim, it costs them MORE money to send this letter, then to actually take it to court, unless they are certain they will lose. Also, they can't claim additional costs in small claims court, which makes it incredibly laughable to anyone with even a tiny bit of legal experience.