Debt Collection Agencies and the Deceased?

[dandroid]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone can help me. My mother-in-law has recently passed away and her estate has been left in the hands of my wife and I to sort out. Going through her post and other documentation it has become apparent that she is being pursued by several debt collection agencies. I have been doing searches on all of these DCA’s and through many forums have found that these companies are quite the charlatan’s of the finance industry.

I am aware of the probate procedure and know that I have to contact any creditors with proof of the death but am worried that this will mean that these companies will automatically be paid out especially when I believe that some of these are false claims, eg. one debt in particular of quite a substantial amount was for a loan that was taken out about 20 years ago which my mother-in-law told us about and she said it was wrote off in a court of law, however I cannot find any supporting documents to prove this.

I have seen examples of letters that can be sent to these DCA’s to make them drop the claims and stop the harassment but don’t know how I can do this when the person to whom the debt is being addressed is dead. Also I have no proof that any of these so called claims are even valid, one of which after reading some other forums I am convinced that it is a scam claim.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I will have to apply for probate very soon and do not want to break any laws. I know that we are not personally liable for these debts but I am still reluctant to allow the estate to pay these DCA’s out after reading the letters and knowing how these companies conduct their business, on principle I would rather tell them where to go.

Thanks for any advice in advance.

[bluebottle]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies and the Deceased?



As an executor, you have a duty to ensure that only legitimate debts are paid from your mother-in-law's estate. The DCAs involved have to prove that your MIL is legally liable for these alleged debts. If the debts are six or more years old and no payments have been made in that time or the debt acknowledged, they may be statute barred, in which case the DCAs can ask for payment, but cannot enforce them after the six year deadline is up.

Which DCAs are involved, please?

[dandroid]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies and the Deceased?

Hi Bluebottle,

Thanks for your prompt reply.

The DCAs in question are:

• “CCS Collect” who are acting for what looks like a third party DCA who are “Aktiv Kapital First Investment Ltd” this is the claim I mentioned for the loan 20+ years ago.
• “Scotcall” who say their creditor is “Arrow Global Guernsey Ltd” from other blogs I have read I question the validity of this claim. No mention of what the debt is for.
• A letter from “Russel+Aitken Solicitors Debt Recovery” who are acting for “Dept Mangers Ltd”. This is a letter threatening legal proceedings. I think this is possibly for a credit card.
• “MackenzieHall” who are also acting for another DCA “Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd”. I believe this is for a catalogue company. I have managed to find some other documents attached to this dept from another DCA "FIRE, Financial Investigations and Recoveries (Europe) Ltd" who are also acting for "Cabot Financial", this is a pre-visit notification dated in December 2012.

There are other debts that I know are valid and we are happy to settle. Unfortunately my MILs filing was not particularly good, the letters I have picked up have generally been sent in the last 2 months as my MIL was in hospital during this period. We did not open any post during this period due to respect to her privacy and we was hoping that she would pull through her illness. We are hoping that to date we will not receive any more claims.

These letters do not state when these agreements were taken out so I cannot be sure if they are over 6 years old or not, I also do not know if my MIL has entered into any correspondence with these companies.

As a further headache my MIL has an outstanding debt due to a funeral director for a payment owed for her own mothers funeral last year. I was wondering if this debt could be passed onto the mothers own estate which has not yet been settled or is my MIL still liable for this?

Sorry to ask so much but I am drowning in all this at the moment!!!

Kind regards,
Dandroid.

[bluebottle]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies and the Deceased?

All funeral expenses normally fall due from the deceased's estate, unless it is a public funeral, in which case the local authority for the area in which the death occurs picks up the bill.

The DCAs you list are the lowest of the low. If there is doubt as to the authenticity of the debts, you are within your rights and, indeed, your duties as an executor, to require that these DCAs and the Original Creditors prove the debts. If they cannot, they are not entitled to a penny until they do. I would be inclined to answer, not as a SIL, but as an executor of your MIL's estate.

Here is a suggested letter -

[Name & Address of DCA]


Dear Sirs,

In the case of [Full Name of MIL] (Deceased)

I write in respect of the abovenamed person who died on [date of death] and of whose estate I am one of the appointed executors.

It has come to my attention that your company has sent correspondence to Mrs [MIL's Surname] last place of residence, containing various demands and threats in respect of alleged debts for which no proof has been provided. As an executor of Mrs [MIL's Surname] estate, I have a duty to ensure that only lawful debts are paid from the estate and to ensure any claims on the estate are proven and to prevent all and any fraudulent claims being made.

Of the correspondence addressed to Mrs [MIL's Surname] from your company I can find no conclusive evidence or proof that the estate is liable for the alleged debt.

Within the next seven calendar days of your receipt of this letter, I shall expect your company to provide me with conclusive evidence and proof that the estate is liable for the alleged debt. I shall also expect you to notify the Original Creditor of this and for them to produce all original documents to prove the alleged debt.

For obvious reasons, I can only accept original documents and any documents tendered which are or which I with reasonable cause suspect to be forgeries or fraudulent in any material respect will be referred to the relevant authorities for investigation and necessary action.

As stated above, your company and the original creditor have seven calendar days from receipt of this letter in which to provide conclusive evidence and proof of the alleged debt and liability of the estate for the said alleged debt.

Yours faithfully,

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Executor for the estate of the Late [MIL's Full Name]

Hopefully, this should buy you some time and ease the pressure at this difficult time. I suggest sending the letters by Signed For mail.

[wales01man]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies and the Deceased?

Bluebottle
What a well worded letter even the thickest debt collector should understand that

[bluebottle]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies and the Deceased?

Bluebottle
What a well worded letter even the thickest debt collector should understand that

Wales, you're making me blush. My method with letters such as this is straight to the point and don't faff about. Back along, I helped an LB member who was experiencing unacceptable levels of harassment from Crapquest to write a letter which they read out over the telephone to one of Crapquest's threat monkeys the next time they rang. From what the LB member told me afterwards, it sounds like the letter had the desired effect as the LB member never heard another word from Crapquest after that.

[dandroid]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies and the Deceased?

Dear Bluebottle,

Thank you so very much for your help, I will get on and write these letters and hopefully I will be able to let you know the outcome in the future.

It’s nice to know that there are genuine good people out there that will help out total strangers in need when there are so many others that would rather sell their souls trying to rip you off.

Kindest regards,
Dandroid.

[bluebottle]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies and the Deceased?

You're welcome.

[labman]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies and the Deceased?

Can I ask how the OP stands legally if the DCA's do not comply within the demanded timescale. I was unaware of any right to make these demands, and 7 days is certainly not long if original documents have to be sought. Say the DCA gets it on a Monday, posts it to the OC that day. Two days in post takes us to Wednesday. The OC finds the documents and puts them in the post on Thursday which arrive back at the DCA on Saturday.

The DCA picks up the letters on return to work on Monday morning, write to the OP that day and have then missed the stipulated 7 day deadline.

It is impossible for them to comply with your demands. Perhaps a more reasonable timeframe of maybe 3 weeks would be better?

Of course what you expect, and what you get may still be two completely different things.

I'm not trying to be obstructive, but I think it may need a bit of a rethink.

[bluebottle]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies and the Deceased?

An executor has a duty to ensure that fraudulent and unjustified claims are not made against an estate they are administering. If DCAs are claiming to be collecting debts from a deceased person, then an executor of the deceased person's estate has a duty to ensure the debts are genuine, legitimate and the DCA/OC has a right to collect.

Knowing what the DCAs listed by the OP are like, keeping them on as short a leash as possible will give them as little room to manoeuvre as possible. 21 days is, perhaps, being a little bit generous to the DCAs involved, given their past history, but 14 days would probably be realistic. It is always open to a DCA/OC to ask an executor for more time, provided the request is reasonable, and for the executor to grant it within reason.

[enquirer]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies and the Deceased?

I concur with Bluebottle. If they genuinely need more time, then they can acknowledge in writing and request an extension.

Given that MIL's filing system was not terribly good, to forestall any further trouble in the future, I would also be inclined to place advertisements in the local newspapers, and possibly in the London Gazette also.

[bluebottle]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies and the Deceased?

I concur with Bluebottle. If they genuinely need more time, then they can acknowledge in writing and request an extension.

Given that MIL's filing system was not terribly good, to forestall any further trouble in the future, I would also be inclined to place advertisements in the local newspapers, and possibly in the London Gazette also.

That is a very good idea and one I would endorse. This will enable the OP to screen all claims and reject those that cannot be substantiated.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies and the Deceased?

Bluebottle
What a well worded letter even the thickest debt collector should understand that

Here's a simpler letter:

Dear Cur,

F**k off.

Yours sincerely...

[labman]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies and the Deceased?

I concur with Bluebottle. If they genuinely need more time, then they can acknowledge in writing and request an extension.

Given that MIL's filing system was not terribly good, to forestall any further trouble in the future, I would also be inclined to place advertisements in the local newspapers, and possibly in the London Gazette also.

That is a very good idea and one I would endorse. This will enable the OP to screen all claims and reject those that cannot be substantiated.

Hi Dandroid,

I am acutely aware of the sensitivities here, and am honestly sorry for your bereavement. As you are in mourning, it is all the more important the advice given here is accurate. In light of this I think, while it will do no harm as such to follow the suggestions above, you need to be very aware of what the law actually says about this.

This was taken directly from the Co-operative Legal Services Website:

http://www.co-operative.coop/legalse...ponsibilities/

"Disappointed beneficiaries have up to 6 months to make a claim after issuing the Grant of Probate while creditors’ owed money by the deceased can potentially make a claim against the personal representative for up to 12 years after the death."

I hope the link above may answer your questions perhaps more accurately than we can.

[gravytrain]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies and the Deceased?

I can only offer personal experience here, when my brother died I sent a letter to all un-secured debtors with a copy of the death certificate and a covering letter stating that there were few liquid assets and that we as a family would have to put together to cover funeral costs, they all replied stating that the debt had been written off.
Admittedly they probably had no choice , but the letter was much less confrontational than the one above.