Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

What an appalling situation. No wonder you got into a mess with it. There really ought to be protection against this sort of thing. At least you know if it went to court, there would be a good chance of many of those charges being refunded. Some would see this as debt avoidance, but in those circumstances, what do you do? I guess the only other alternative at the start of the problem would have been a DMP. Whether they would have accepted one with interest and charges frozen is another matter.

Fortunately, MBNA couldn't find any trace of the CCA and I've got 3 letters saying so: one with my SAR, one in response to my CCA request and one sent just over a year ago saying they didn't want to correspond with me anymore about the fact they couldn't find my agreement! What a shame! :okay:

I read somewhere when MBNA bought the A&L accounts in 2002 they neglected to request the agreements and virtually all of them were subsequently destroyed. :grin:

[Malakai26]

Re: Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

The letter I received was dated the 21st but I didn't receive till the 24th! They state 7 days from the date on the letter. Is this 7 working days? or I think I read somewhere 7 + 2, I couldn't get to the post office today so bit concerned because it will be first thing Monday morning now.

Sorry to be a nuisance

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

The letter I received was dated the 21st but I didn't receive till the 24th! They state 7 days from the date on the letter. Is this 7 working days? or I think I read somewhere 7 + 2, I couldn't get to the post office today so bit concerned because it will be first thing Monday morning now.

Are you referring to the letter quoted on this post, from Wescot? Don't worry about those threat-o-grams, they are just templates they churn out by the dozen via mail merge, just filling in your details. Wescot are at the top of the DCA League of Incompetence, I got a pile of threatening letters from them and their letterheads-for-rent Nelson Guest Puppets, many of them using 'scary' BRIGHT RED writing! This was nearly two years ago, I ignored most of their missives and just sent a dispute letter to Wescot and one to their puppets when they contacted me. I had already requested a CCA from the OC which was unenforceable.

In your case, you should start by sending the CCA request noted above, and see what they respond with. They will have to obtain it from the OC and will put the account on hold till they can respond with something. Don't let the red writing scare you, I've got quite a few FINAL DEMANDS on file!

Today I received another letter with a big bold red header which says important notice of debt collection Wescot. "Wescot Credit Services is a specialist DEBT COLLECTION organisation. We have been instructedby our client to collect the outstanding balance on their behalf, then in capital and bold "To avoid wescot taking further action you must: 1) Pay the debt in full or 2) Contact us on. Please contact us as soon as possible as failure to do so will result in further recovery action"

[Malakai26]

Re: Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

Yes, I was talking about the threat-o-gram

I will post mine first thing Monday morning by registered post, it is all done and ready thanks to every ones help. I was just a little concerned if there were any legal time frames.

Really wish i'd found this forum at the start of all this, would have been nice to have support from the start.

Thanks

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

Yes, I was talking about the threat-o-gram

I will post mine first thing Monday morning by registered post, it is all done and ready thanks to every ones help. I was just a little concerned if there were any legal time frames.

Not at the moment. Once you send the CCA letter they will have to reply in 14 days, I very much doubt they will as they'll have to go back to MBNA. If you receive another letter from a DCA you can then tell them the account is in dispute till you receive a compliant response. The CCA request should cover you for now. Do post here if you receive any other further letters.

Really wish i'd found this forum at the start of all this, would have been nice to have support from the start.
Thanks

Better late than never! :okay:

[labman]

Re: Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

I'm not sure if this has been posted on here before, but this thread is useful:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ing-with-DCA-s

The 'Prove It' letter in post 4 often stops DCA's dead in their tracks.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

I'm not sure if this has been posted on here before, but this thread is useful:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ing-with-DCA-s

The 'Prove It' letter in post 4 often stops DCA's dead in their tracks.

Yes, it often works with the likes of Wetclothes who like to prey on easy targets, however, as this is an MBNA debt owned by Arrow, it would be wise to get a CCA request in to be on the safe side, and be able to dispute the account later on if necessary.

Arrow have issued quite a few claims for MBNA debts and, as you know, once it reaches that stage, it can be hard to get them to comply with CPR requests. If memory serves me, Plan B managed to keep the wolves away and stave off legal action by sending Arrow (or the shysters acting for them), a fresh CCA request. :thumb:

[labman]

Re: Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

It is always a good investment of £1.00 when things are at this stage to know whether the CCA is still around or not anyway. Of course one has to remember they can legally reconstitute it, and still comply with the CCA request, so you might still be left uncertain whether or not the original exists. There are other ways to stave off court action if they do this though.

[PlanB]

Re: Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

Arrow have issued quite a few claims for MBNA debts and, as you know, once it reaches that stage, it can be hard to get them to comply with CPR requests. If memory serves me, Plan B managed to keep the wolves away and stave off legal action by sending Arrow (or the shysters acting for them), a fresh CCA request. :thumb:

I certainly did and that was last October and not a word since except to say they've requested the information from MBNA. I'm not overly bothered to hear that since MBNA had previously written direct to me to say that they don't have it

Arrow are very quick to litigate so all I can say is get on with it. Send the CCA request by Royal Mail recorded delivery pronto. If you send it to Wescot (because they are chasing you for the alleged debt) send a copy of it with a covering letter to Arrow as well to make sure they are kept in the loop. In my case Wescot panicked when I told them a s.78 CCA request had been outstanding since Jan 2011 and returned the account to Arrow but didn't tell them why they had returned it so Arrow presumed I was a 'debt avoider' and I received a LBA from their solicitors a week later. My immediate response was to send the solicitors a fresh CCA request. I know of several cases where county court summons have been issued by Arrow for MBNA debts recently purchased so take control of the situation fast :typing:

[Kafka]

Re: Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

Just a couple of general points of advice here to check you have covered the bases.

As soon as you start getting problems with payments on any account you should send SAR request to the Original Creditor to make sure that you are already in possession of all the personal data they hold on you. Its £10 well spent but as they have 40 days to respond you can't trigger a fast response if there's a crisis. By contrast, the CCA requests advised have a 14-day turnaround.

Another important point - as I have mentioned - is to check your credit file. That's cheap (£2) and you can do it regularly and instantly, now you can download them. This doesn't have a lot of detail, but it does confirm the registered owner and the balance and payment history. Its common for DCAs to claim that they own debts when they don't just to frighten you, but you can always refer to the credit file as authority that they don't. This is important to counter their deceit, but also, only the official owner of an account can take legal action to recover it, which is why banks go to such lengths to fabricate agreements and why DCAs produce their own 'Letters of Assignment' on the banks' headed paper in an attempt to create the legal rights that thye plainly don't have.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

As soon as you start getting problems with payments on any account you should send SAR request to the Original Creditor to make sure that you are already in possession of all the personal data they hold on you. Its £10 well spent but as they have 40 days to respond you can't trigger a fast response if there's a crisis. By contrast, the CCA requests advised have a 14-day turnaround.

I was also of this opinion and sent SARs for my accounts too, however, some people have 10 or even 20 creditors (I won't go into detail but I do know at least a couple on here who do), in which case SARing each and everyone would be quite expensive, when you consider the cost of the PO (I think it was £1.50) & RD postage on top of the £10 fee.

The SAR is useful to find out about PPI, charges, etc. but it doesn't have any legal standing with regards to the CCA (although if a company fails to comply you can complain to the ICO). Non-compliance with a SAR is not grounds for dispute or to stave off legal action.

Another important point - as I have mentioned - is to check your credit file. That's cheap (£2) and you can do it regularly and instantly, now you can download them. This doesn't have a lot of detail, but it does confirm the registered owner and the balance and payment history. Its common for DCAs to claim that they own debts when they don't just to frighten you, but you can always refer to the credit file as authority that they don't. This is important to counter their deceit, but also, only the official owner of an account can take legal action to recover it, which is why banks go to such lengths to fabricate agreements and why DCAs produce their own 'Letters of Assignment' on the banks' headed paper in an attempt to create the legal rights that thye plainly don't have.

Unfortunately this can sometimes have an undesirable side effect: you could start hearing from old creditors who hadn't been in touch before, this has been known to happen and debtors should be aware of this possibility. I suspect in this case Arrow do own the account, only because I'm familiar with dozens more cases of MBNA accounts being sold to Arrow, they've been buying virtually ever MBNA account over the past year or so, except mine! :behindsofa:

[Kafka]

Re: Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

Yes I agree Parrot, which is why I said "As soon as you start getting problems". I've seen many cases before where the problems have mounted and the wait for the SAR return can be fatal if you are caught out by leaving it too late to get the data you need. I know all about having lots of debt problems at the same time LOL.

My last comments were general rather than thread-related, and I agree that in this case AK are probably the owner. Having said that, I have had several letters from DCAs claiming ownership that they have never had and the credit report is a quick, cheap and efficient tool if you aren't aware of it, as many newcomers are not.

[labman]

Re: Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

Totally with FP here. Only act when you need to. Try to avoid checking your credit file at all costs. As a matter of policy, with anyone intending to repay a debt they owe, as clearly they should, I always recommend totally ignoring the first two letters that come. In response to the third send off a simple prove it letter, then if they respond to that, take things from there.

Usually the first step is to establish whether or not they have a CCA. I tend to use a CCA request letter I've put together to combine a CCA request with a question under CPUTR 2008 asking them to confirm whether or not they hold the original. This then overcomes any reconstitution issues.

SAR's can be very useful, but IMO, should only be sent when necessary as they are expensive. It is rare one cannot predict the need for getting this information a fair way in advance.

[Malakai26]

Re: Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

Hi, Thank you for the added information.

Will a SAR tell me how much my debt was sold for if indeed it was sold?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Hello, been reading loads but still unsure.

Hi, Thank you for the added information.

Will a SAR tell me how much my debt was sold for if indeed it was sold?

No, that is considered 'commercially sensitive' information that does not relate to you as such because it's a transaction between the lender and the debt purchaser that doesn't involve the debtor at all. They are usually sold for no more than 10% of the alleged balance, the rest is written off for tax purposes by the lender so they're not really losing a penny!