Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

[gallahad]

Re: Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

Thanks FP but unfortunately that link fails also I only have 5 days to get my defence in now so doubt there is time to explore the NWNF route.
G

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

Yes it is over £10k

Being over the small claims threshold, you may be able to get legal representation on a no-win-no-fee basis. You may want to take a look at this post

You've got nothing to lose. :biggrin1:

Plan B successfully defended a claim for a store card turned credit card -> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17670803 :bounce:

BBC News link

[gallahad]

Re: Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

No Problem PB. thanks.
G

[PlanB]

Re: Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

Hi PB, I did not say not sure I did say I am sure. I know I was not given terms & conditions at the time of signing. the reason I know this is I was only handed one document (the agreement) as I was actually making a payment for goods at the time I had a queue of people behind me. I was in business for many years and have never failed to read terms and conditions when given any. I was trained to read the subheadings which are usually in bold and then read in detail any sections which i think of concern to me and there is no way I could have stood there doing that while a line of people stood behind me waiting to pay for their purchases. Weight is added to my view on this as M&S have on two different occasions given me copies of what they say were handed to me at the time and these are entirely different from each other. One of these is 2 full pages A4 and the other is 4 full pages A4 and neither could have been on the reverse of the agreement as this was also A4 size.
G

^^^^ My mistake I was wearing my old glasses Your post will make a good paragraph in your WS though

[gallahad]

Re: Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

Sadly you won't get very far with this argument, accounts can be sold quite freely even when disputed. More significant is whether you got a Notice of Assignment (NoA). Yes FP I did get a NOA it was on M&S headed paper and sent in the same envelope as the letter from Sigma informing me they now owned the debt.

If you are referring to a request for a copy of your agreement (CCA request), it would be a s.78 request. S.127 is the one that prevents a court from issuing an enforcement order without a properly executed agreement, but you request your agreement under s.78. When you sent your CCA request, did the letter actually state it was a s.78 request and did you enclose the £1 fee? When you say M&S failed to fulfill your request, what (if anything) did they send back? Yes it was a s.78 request and they cashed the £1 fee. They sent a copy of the signed "agreement" and the 2 page version of the terms and conditions they allege to have handed me when I signed the what they are calling the agreement although it is headed as "Credit Card Application" and does not meet the terms prescribed by the act.

How did it fail? Did it mention a date or just a number of days? Did it ask for the arrears or the full amount? It mentioned 14 days from the date on the DN which left me only 6 days from when I received it to remedy it ( I still have the envelope). It asked fro the arrears and stated that the account will be terminated if i failed to remedy by their timescale.

You don't always get a notice of termination as such.

What sort of credit card was this? Was it originally an M&S storecard or was it a credit card from the start? This could make all the difference! Do you recall what you were presented with in the store?

How much is the alleged balance? Is it over £5,000?

Yes it is over £10k

G

[gallahad]

Re: Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

Would it not be better to say in No 5 "I have no recollection of being given a copy of any Terms & Conditions at the time I signed the application in store" ? That sounds much more definite than "not sure" which could be interpreted as "maybe I did" and then that annoying 'balance of probablilities' argument kicks in when the other side say "we always provided Ts & Cs at the same time so he would have seen them".

Hi PB, I did not say not sure I did say I am sure. I know I was not given terms & conditions at the time of signing. the reason I know this is I was only handed one document (the agreement) as I was actually making a payment for goods at the time I had a queue of people behind me. I was in business for many years and have never failed to read terms and conditions when given any. I was trained to read the subheadings which are usually in bold and then read in detail any sections which i think of concern to me and there is no way I could have stood there doing that while a line of people stood behind me waiting to pay for their purchases. Weight is added to my view on this as M&S have on two different occasions given me copies of what they say were handed to me at the time and these are entirely different from each other. One of these is 2 full pages A4 and the other is 4 full pages A4 and neither could have been on the reverse of the agreement as this was also A4 size.
G

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

Having been evacuated from my home for 3 days due to a serious gas leak and risk of explosion I have not had the time I would have liked but here is my defence which must be entered this week.

1. The account was in serious dispute with M&S and should not have been sold on while in dispute. ( I believe this is against the guidelines of either the OFT or FSA would apreciate any reference to this)

Sadly you won't get very far with this argument, accounts can be sold quite freely even when disputed. More significant is whether you got a Notice of Assignment (NoA).

2. M & S failed to fulfill my request under statutory CCA S127 request.

If you are referring to a request for a copy of your agreement (CCA request), it would be a s.78 request. S.127 is the one that prevents a court from issuing an enforcement order without a properly executed agreement, but you request your agreement under s.78. When you sent your CCA request, did the letter actually state it was a s.78 request and did you enclose the £1 fee? When you say M&S failed to fulfill your request, what (if anything) did they send back?

3. The default notice served under section 87(1) of the consumer credit act 1974 failed to meet meet the requirements of the act stipulating 14 days to remedy the breach.

How did it fail? Did it mention a date or just a number of days? Did it ask for the arrears or the full amount?

4. No notice of termination was sent.

You don't always get a notice of termination as such.

5. I am sureI was not given a copy of any terms and conditions at the time of signing the agreement in the store.

What sort of credit card was this? Was it originally an M&S storecard or was it a credit card from the start? This could make all the difference! Do you recall what you were presented with in the store?

How much is the alleged balance? Is it over £5,000?

[PlanB]

Re: Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

Would it not be better to say in No 5 "I have no recollection of being given a copy of any Terms & Conditions at the time I signed the application in store" ? That sounds much more definite than "not sure" which could be interpreted as "maybe I did" and then that annoying 'balance of probablilities' argument kicks in when the other side say "we always provided Ts & Cs at the same time so he would have seen them".

[gallahad]

Re: Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

Having been evacuated from my home for 3 days due to a serious gas leak and risk of explosion I have not had the time I would have liked but here is my defence which must be entered this week.


1. The account was in serious dispute with M&S and should not have been sold on while in dispute. ( I believe this is against the guidelines of either the OFT or FSA would apreciate any reference to this)


2. M & S failed to fulfill my request under statutory CCA S127 request.


3. The default notice served under section 87(1) of the consumer credit act 1974 failed to meet meet the requirements of the act stipulating 14 days to remedy the breach.


4. No notice of termination was sent.


5. I am sure I was not given a copy of any terms and conditions at the time of signing the agreement in the store.


I would greatly appreciate any advice on the wording of the above.
G

[mystery1]

Re: Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...756#post307756

M1

[gallahad]

Re: Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

Hi M1, sorry if i am being a bit thick here but can I ask what happens if the documents arrive before my unless order is granted?
G

[mystery1]

Re: Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

Now. They had 7 days from service of the 31.14 and failed and failed again when you graciously asked for an extension and waited until now.

The agreed extension is so you can file a defence not so they can waste your time and give you 30 seconds to file a defence.

M1

[gallahad]

Re: Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

Can I go for an unless order now or do I have to wait until the 28th?
G

[mystery1]

Re: Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

Unless order. Do not enter a defence yet.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...442#post275442

M1

[gallahad]

Re: Court Summons from Sigma re M & S credit Card

Having agreed an extension date for my defence as the 28th January and informed the court. There are now only 13 days left, and they have still failed to comply with my CPR request, I do not have the 14 days allowed under CPR rules to consider my defence. I would be grateful to any suggestions on what course of action should I now pursue.
G