TV license officer visit

[labman]

Re: TV license officer visit

Deleted

[bluebottle]

Re: TV license officer visit

Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (England & Wales)
2.
Section 67(9) of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act (PACE) 1984 states that:
“Persons other than Police Officers charged with a duty of investigating offences or charging offenders shall in the discharge of that duty have regard to any relevant provision of a code of practice made under the Act.”
3.
PACE Code of Practice (COP) C 11.1A states that the questioning of a person regarding their involvement in a criminal offence must be carried out under caution.

Is this what Enquirer is referring to? Is there a definitive list of those 'Charged with a duty....'? If so, where is it?

To the best of my knowledge and belief, PACE does not cover any Tom, Dick or Harry who fancies themselves as some sort of self-styled crime-fighter. The provision you have highlighted in red would cover the sort of persons I listed in an earlier post. PACE provides safeguards for the individual against unfair treatment and corrupt practices. A person charged with the duty of investigating offences or charging offenders would need to have some sort of lawful authority to enable them to discharge that duty. Such lawful authority would be enshrined in legislation. It would need to be established if Capita employees working for TVL have such lawful authority and, if so, which legal provision confers that authority. If such provision does not exist, then Capita employees working for TVL administering cautions would, IMHO, amount to intimidation and, possibly, harassment, also. Hope this clarifies matters.

[smartgirl]

Re: TV license officer visit

Hi everyone and thanks for your interesting comments and advice.

I am now the "not so proud owner" of a television license, the money for which I had to borrow from a relative. Allegedly my license ran out at the end of August but I will be checking payments against bank statements as the lady I spoke to couldn't tell me off hand how much I had paid towards it.

Whilst I agree with some of the comments on here, I would just like to say, particularly for the people who have not had the pleasure of one of these visits, that its not a nice experience to say the least, particularly if you are a single woman living with your 17 year old son.

Not many people know the difference between a real police caution and a caution that any "Turd-Brain" can administer and I have to agree with Bluebottle that it amounts to nothing less than intimidation and bullying so please do not judge me for letting this p...ck into my home. The caution was purely a bullying tactic to get me to comply and evidently it works! He cautioned me and was guilty even before he had proof that I even had a television.

On the other hand I have to thank the TVL people for enlightening me with regards to how many people are so against paying for their license and I cannot help but agree with them. Although I have bought one It maybe/probably be the last I buy. Anyways, I will prepare for the worst scenario, i.e. a summons/prosecution just to make "Capita's fiugres look good" but that's ok. I will take it on the chin. I can really do without the extra expense but I will still try and fight my corner in court.

These Capita people need to get real jobs and stop harassing innocent people on a Saturday evening. God forgive me for saying this but I hope these people end up rotting in hell with Jimmy Saville!.

[labman]

Re: TV license officer visit

Deleted

[bluebottle]

Re: TV license officer visit

As stated in my post, Labman, the ones listed are those I was able to think of off the top of my head at the time. To the best of my knowledge and belief, there is no official list of persons charged with investigating criminal offences and charging offenders. Unfortunately, Parliament has not gotten round to compiling such a list and enshrining it within PACE. It would make life much easier for everyone if they did. Until that happens, you will need to trawl through legislation to find out if a person carrying out a certain enforcement role has lawful authority. One quick way to check is to ask to closely examine a person's identity card. If a person has lawful authority, this should be stated on the front of the card. If you look closely at a police warrant card, there will be words to the effect of "This is to certify that Joe Bloggs is a Constable of the Toytown Police. This is his/her authority to carry out his/her duties." Please remember, however, that the office of Constable is a Crown Appointment and that police officers are Crown Servants, like Armed Forces personnel and Civil Servants.

Any person who has lawful authority to investigate criminal offences or charge offenders will have something like this on their identity/warrant card, showing the legal provision that gives rise to their authority and powers.

[smartgirl]

Re: TV license officer visit

Any ideas on what I could say my complaint letter? Advice would be much appreciated.

[miliitant]

Re: TV license officer visit

i would imagine the list would be the same as those who can have a link with the police national computer

this is just an educated guess though and on no foundation

Organisations with full access:

• All territorial police forces of Great Britain
• Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI)
• British Transport Police (BTP)
• Scotland's Police Forces
• Civil Nuclear Constabulary
• Isle of Man Constabulary
• States of Jersey Police
• States of Guernsey Police Service
• National Identification Service (NIS)
• Serious Organised Crime Agency (SOCA)
• Ministry of Defence Police (MDP)
• HM Revenue & Customs
• The Security Service (MI5)
• Secret Intelligence Service (MI6)
• Government Communications Headquarters
• Defence Intelligence Staff
• Department for Work and Pensions
• Scottish Crime and Drug Enforcement Agency
• Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO)^[3]

Other organisations have restricted access. They include HM Court Service, Probation Service, the Criminal Records Bureau, Royal Military Police (Names file only), Royal Air Force Police (Names file only), Royal Navy Police (Names file only) & Royal Marines Police (Names file only).

[smartgirl]

Re: TV license officer visit

Any ideas on what I could say my complaint letter? Advice would be much appreciated.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: TV license officer visit

Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing to inform you of the terrible experience I have had at the hands of *insert name if known* of Capita Ltd (your agents).
On *insert date* I had a visit from said person, who accused me of not having a television licence, I was shocked at this, I was under the impression that I had paid for this in full.

Whilst I attempted to explain what was a geunine misunderstanding, and prove my past payments towards the licence, I was treated as though I was a hardened criminal and my good reputation was put to question, causing me emotional distress and to question myself.
I was also cautioned as though I had been placed under arrest, at one point I thought I was under arrest!
I have subsequently been informed your agent (for whom you are 100% vicariously liable) has no right to use such techniques, and any "caution" is in fact null and void.

I have been treated shamefully by this agent, all for a simple misunderstanding that until I was visited, I had no knowledge of.
I have received no letters, calls or emails from yourselves before this person contacted me.

I require a full investigation as to my treatment, and the conduct of your agent, and notice of the outcome.

I will allow 14 days for the resolution of this matter.

Yours

*Ms Smartgirl*


-------------------------

Please feel free to edit, rip to shreds or bin as you will guys..

p

[smartgirl]

Re: TV license officer visit

Thank you so much for this Puffrose.

[bluebottle]

Re: TV license officer visit

Miliitant,

The agencies you list are currently subject to PACE, as are the Royal Military Police, Royal Marines Police, Royal Air Force Police and Royal Navy Police & Provost Service. There is talk of the Civil Nuclear Constabulary and Ministry of Defence Police (one of the two forces I served with) merging. This makes sense as CNC are relatively small.

Puffrose,

The letter you have drafted is fine. One tip I would give is that if these muppets gain entry to someone's home, the householder would have to go through a civil complaint, but if the muppets are kept outside, then Section 4/4A, Public Order Act 1986 may well apply (Causing Intentional Alarm, Distress or Harassment).

[labman]

Re: TV license officer visit

Deleted

[ploddertom]

Re: TV license officer visit

Worth a look for thought from those against http://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/...c9599a505ef64&

[enquirer]

Re: TV license officer visit

PACE provides safeguards for the individual against unfair treatment and corrupt practices.

Yes, it cuts both ways - not only is the interviewee safeguarded, the interviewer gets better quality evidence.

A person charged with the duty of investigating offences or charging offenders would need to have some sort of lawful authority to enable them to discharge that duty. Such lawful authority would be enshrined in legislation.

Although PACE was aimed principally at the police, other persons who are legally empowered to fulfill an enforcement role are required to use it.

Those who simply investigate or detect crimes but who have no such empowerment (eg store detectives, PI's, security guards), are merely well advised to use it. Thus, the caution is standard practice in the security industry (it was the Judges Rules before PACE came on the scene).

Obviously, when a properly obtained statement is produced in court, it is much more likely to be well received. A security guard producing a statement which is then revealed to have been obtained in a interview setting and whilst the alleged offender was not under caution, would face a very rough ride from the defence.

It would need to be established if Capita employees working for TVL have such lawful authority and, if so, which legal provision confers that authority. If such provision does not exist, then Capita employees working for TVL administering cautions would, IMHO, amount to intimidation and, possibly, harassment, also.

It's intimidation, certainly. It relies for its effect on the fact that most people don't know that any Tom, Dick or Harry can recite the formula.

As to whether Capita goons have some sort of empowerment, they don't. That's they have to get off your land when you tell them to (and stay off, if you withdraw the implied right of access). Only if they manage to get a search warrant, do they have any power, and that is fleeting.

The BBC hires Capita to collect the licence fee, and licences the TVL brand name to them (they are obliged to use it, and to make no reference to the BBC, so the BBC can distance itself from their antics). They are a high-pressure sales organisation, and nothing more.

[bluebottle]

Re: TV license officer visit

I've found this link. The BBC has released the Visiting Handbook obtained under a FOI request that enforcement employees must follow. The link is below and a few quotations from it. I would suggest this may be a very solid base for your complaint letter as it is using their own guidelines.

http://www.televisionlicence.info/tvl/inspectors

Always prove their identity by showing their identity card and, on request, provide a telephone number so that this can be confirmed.

1. Always state why they are visiting.
2. Be polite and courteous at all times (this extends to any notes written about the customer/interviewee on the Visit Request).
3. Conduct enquiries firmly and fairly and in the least intrusive way possible.
4. Never threaten or intimidate, and to stop the enquiry if asked to leave.
5. Only enter a property when given permission.

If you feel that an inspector has breached any of these guidelines, you may wish to lodge a complaint with TV Licensing.
What does "questioned under caution" mean?

A TVL employee may attempt to "administer a caution" to you. Although this sounds intimidating, it is quite different from a police caution.
To "administer a caution" to someone, in the general sense, simply means to inform them of their rights.
It does not mean that you are under arrest, or that the person reading the caution has the power to arrest you (unless of course they are a police officer).

The BBC FOI disclosure contains far too many redactions, leading me to conclude that Capita employees acting as Visiting Officers do not have lawful authority. If they had, this would be clearly stated in the disclosure. Call me a cynical ex-copper, but I have a sneaking suspicion the redactions are to cover up the fact that TVL Visiting Officers are employees of a private company - Capita - and not civil servants, who are Crown Servants and who would have lawful authority.