Court papers and CPR 31.14 non compliance

[ruthles112]

Re: Court papers and CPR 31.14 non comppliance

Thanks. In reply to your questions:
My CPR31.14 request did ask for a copy of the agreement AND 'any general conditions incorporated in the contract'. No T&Cs supplied with copy of agreement which does look cosher although so small it's almost illegible regarding terms.
No I didn't ever send a request under S78 but my calculations of what I paid after they stopped sending statements matches the sum they claim.
A copy of the notice of assignment is one of the papers supplied last week. Not received previously - addressed to a previous address. Solicitors say their client (Arrow) says it was served first class post. The assignment letter mentions that Westcot Credit Services continue to manage the account and in fact Westcot had already written 2 letters in November 2011 to my current address!
Re the default notice I've sent you a PM on this. Although I read all through the links you gave I must admit that the technicalities of it all made my brain and eyes misty! I'm sure it would take several reads to finally make sense.
I'm pinning my hopes on the fact that they haven't proved their (AG's) right to the debt by their own admission not serving the assignment notice by registered post as seems to be miliitant's contention. Surely the word 'title' in the assignment letter means that the Law of Property Act 1925 applies and s196 re service was not complied with and therefore not adequate! However given the dreadful delays in the court system (I was under the impression originally that the unless order would be issued straight away from Northampton and they'd only actually have 14 days from my application) I can forsee that they'll have lots more time to find all the docs.
I'm also hoping that the judge has already agreed to issue the unless order. Before he decides whether or not to will he ask for a hearing?? I'll call the court tomorrow and get the latest.
ruthless

[mystery1]

Re: Court papers and CPR 31.14 non comppliance

Assignment can be informal so if you have admitted in any way that you got it it could be problematic even if not served registered. However if you maintain you didn't get it then they'd have a hell of a job with service if they sent unregistered.

Court process is slow although any dates you need to adhere to will creep up quickly.

M1

[ruthles112]

Re: Court papers and CPR 31.14 non comppliance

URGENT HELP please. Eventually the Court got their act together and on 18 Jan the Judge ordered hearing for Tuesday 5 Feb and I received notice of hearing of Application dated 25 Jan ordering me to 'produce bundle consisting of claim form, defence and copy of application. To be filed not less than 4 days prior to the hearing. A copy to be served upon Claimant'. (All taken care of).
Meanwhile I've been away from home for 8 days and solicitor's have written as follows:
First letter dtd 8 jan enclosing statement of account, copy of agreement and notice of assignment. They confirmed notice of assignment was sent first class post.
2nd letter dtd 11 Jan which arrived while I was away.They noted that they had been notified in November by the court that the matter was transferred to local court but had heard nothing further. They were 'disappointed' that I made the N244 Application as they had told me that the docs had been requested from client. They admitted that copy default notice and termination notice was still outstanding and that their client 'was not at liberty to provide a copy of the deed of assignment'. They proposed that upon provision of the default notice and notice of termination or confirmation that same were unavailable that I file my Defence within 21 days. Also suggested that I withdraw application with the court on the basis that they provided the majority of the docs and confirmed intention to provide remainder.
My reply pointed out that all the delays from the date of my application to Northampton on 19 Nov were down to the court not having all the necessary paperwork during the transfer to local court - out of my hands. Also that although they had now provided SOME of the docs under CPR 31.14 I was entitled to see ALL that are 'mentioned' within the time set down by CPR. Also that the person who signed the Statement of Truth should have had sight of the docs in order to 'have an honest belief in the statement of case'. I was therefore not prepared to withdraw application.
I also made a request to them under CPR Pt 18 for forther information about the Default notice.
The very next day the Court Hearing Notice arrived as well as a further letter from solicitors complaining they hadn't had any reply to their 2 previous letters and reserving the right to draw their letter to the attention of the court on a question of costs if necessary.

Meanwhile I've done as the court ordered by providing copy papers to both the court and claimant and settled down to wait for hearing on Tuesday 5 Feb.
Now HORROR OF HORRORS I've just picked up email sent 1 Feb (by post and email) enclosing last minute letter (attached) enclosing copy default notice and statement from MBNA confirming 'assignment of this account to Arrow Global Limited who now hold all legal rights, authorities and obligations'. They request again that I withdraw my application and invite me to file my defence within 21 days. If agreeable they enclose draft consent order (which asks me to waiver my claim to costs (of my N244 application?)). If I do not agree they'll instruct counsel to attend and seek an order for my order to be struck out and for me to pay their client's costs occasioned by the application. PROMPT RESPONSE REQUIRED BY 12 noon TOMORROW (4 Feb).
The letter has not yet been received by post.
2 questions apart from the obvious of help - what do I do.
First the assignment from MBNA was to Arrow Global Limited but the claim is being made by Arrow Global Guernsey Ltd. Is there wriggle room here?
2nd surely as it has been their failure to provide the documents within the time set down by CPRs that caused me to make an N244 application it is unfair for them not to have to pay the costs. Anyway as the Judge has already obvoiusly read the papers and made the order the costs have already been incurred BEFORE the time they provided all the required paperwork.

Thanks to everyone for their help.
ruthles112

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court papers and CPR 31.14 non comppliance

You may want to contact these guys, :first:one of them (pt2537) is a member here, and he's been dealing with quite a few Arrow claims issued for MBNA accounts. PM him! :okay:

[mystery1]

Re: Court papers and CPR 31.14 non comppliance

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...756#post307756

As i see it they hadn't complied despite many requests. Did they ask for a consent order to allow them to do as they say ? Didn't think so. They could have applied for a default judgement if you didn't act and they expected you to trust them. Don't think so, that would be beyond stupid.

I say go for costs but it's your call. Write off £80 for piece of mind or play hardball and risk costs if you lose.

I think you are in quite a strong position and should attend. Your call though.

M1

[ruthles112]

Re: Court papers and CPR 31.14 non comppliance

Ok - that's my gut feeling too especially as todays post has now arrived and there is no hard copy letter!!!
Let you know tomorrow afternoon what happens.
Thanks again
ruthles112

[ruthles112]

Re: Court papers and CPR 31.14 non comppliance

Had another email this afternoon. Encloses short letter noting no response to their letter and encloses client's schedule of costs which they've filed at court. Amounts to almost £1000.!!!
I take this as serious threat and feel they must really be running scared. What do you think? I assume Judge will decide whether or not to award them those costs at hearing tomorrow depending on whether he feels I have a valid case to keep demanding the information I've asked for.
I'm running a bit scared too now so please assure me and give me some courage.
I really don't see how I can defend without being certain they have a valid claim ie without the deed of assignment how do I know what kind of assignment it was and therefore if the notice of assignment is valid.
ruthles112

[mystery1]

Re: Court papers and CPR 31.14 non comppliance

Make sure you have all the evidence of your requests with you in note form and don't forget to explain to the judge about the rules saying 28 day extension only and you were afraid they'd apply for default judgement. Also make sure you have your own costs. (time[£18 per hour], payments (stamps, court fees etc),travelling, parking etc etc).

Get it in about the statement of truth as well.

Make more of the default notice than the deed or the judge make not like it even if it is technically correct.

Even if you lose, which shouldn't happen, i think there are grounds for no costs against you.

They may try the consent order on the steps of the court again.

M1

[ruthles112]

Re: Court papers and CPR 31.14 non comppliance

OK thanks .................
ruthles112

[ruthles112]

Re: Court papers and CPR 31.14 non comppliance

Well - here's what happened. Their counsel was quite an agressive young lady who took the tack that they'd supplied everything they were obliged to under CPR31.14, pointing out that some things I'd asked for they weren't obliged to send ie Deed of assignment and Termination notice. She concluded that all the obligations had been met and that she wanted my hearing and application struck off, for me to file defence within 21 days and for no order for (my?) costs. Judge listened to my arguments and facts that I felt unable to defend without the required docs, that I felt the only way to get them after their failure to supply in response to CPR31.14 was by order to compel disclosure, and that I believed that the 28 day extension for submission of my defence was all that I would be given. I admitted that all the documents actually mentioned in the poc were now received but that the default notice was only supplied by email at the very last moment before the hearing. Some of the docs were not entirely to my satisfaction - the Agreement supplied was merely the Application form completed when I took out the credit card with no terms and conditions of any kind, and I could not be certain that the Notice of assignment was validly served as they refused to provide a copy of the Deed of Assignment to establish the type of assignment ie absolute or equitable. Judge said these later matters were the subject of a defence and strictly all the documents validly requested under 31.14 had indeed been provided. However, he was quite clear that they were extremely tardily provided. He held that my application be struck out, we agreed 28 days for submission of a defence and he did not consent to their costs! but equally he didn't consent to ours either but only £80 to lose against nearly £1000 for them to lose out on!
Lesson learnt is that solicitors have all the right questions and inferences about a defendant at their fingertips and off by heart whereas a LIP is caught on the hoof and is very likely to get flustered because of the huge amount of information and knowledge of procedures to take in.

So next step I propose is to get working on a defence in good time, hopefully run it past someone here or a solicitor for its validity and to submit at the last minute so the Claimant has as little time as possible to be forewarned of the details of the defence.
When it is submitted (by 4pm 5 March) what is the procedure then? Does it take some weeks again before the Judge looks at it and decides if he will rule there and then or call for a hearing? Will that hearing be informal like this one (private with just Judge and Claimant and Defendant)?
As always - more questions.
Thanks to all concerned for help so far.
R112

[mystery1]

Re: Court papers and CPR 31.14 non comppliance

Pity you couldn't get costs but at least you showed them you have some fight and their intimidation doesn't work.

You also get some experience in case you go further and that £80 might prove to be well spent.

M1

[mystery1]

Re: Court papers and CPR 31.14 non comppliance

Any update ?

M1

[Rob the Bus]

Re: Court papers and CPR 31.14 non comppliance

What a great read. Sent a 31.14 request myself to a firm called Lowells by Email and got a reply saying they cannot respond to it under the Data Protection Act??? They suggest I phone them and answer their DPA questions!
I hope Ruthles112 was successful with the case and/or gives an update

[ostell]

Re: Court papers and CPR 31.14 non compliance

Nope, don't answer their DPA questions.

[ruthles112]

Re: Court papers and CPR 31.14 non compliance

Sorry folks not to have updated you all. Courts take so long. To catch up - submitted defence as ordered by court at application hearing having taken on board our very own pt2537 who dealt with things magnificently. AG's solicitors (Shoosmiths) baulked and delayed at every point possible. Eventually trial in January 2014 and on the day before trial AG solicitors asked for agreement to adjourn as their (only) witness couldn't attend trial!!!!!! Request was not agreed but with the proviso that if a 'good reason' was provided the matter would be considered. None was forthcoming! Turned up at court next day to be told they'd 'discontinued' the case. Brilliant result for us although as fast track case only part of the barrister's fee was reimbursed so at some cost (and much aggravation and sleepless nights). It turned out their witness had been 'suspended'. However that may have been a better solution than losing and having the evidence made public about their non-compliant failings! Thanks to all for help received along the way.