MBNA to Moorcroft to Arden

[leopard lady]

In the space of a few weeks my debt has been passed to Arden. I recieved a letter Tuesday asking me to phone them to pay the debt in full then the attached letter today.

I am assuming I need to contact them, CCCS told me to make a token payment to MBNA, but I was paying them £40 a month until November when I could not afford it.

Asked the same on CAG, my advice on there is to write to them but not sure what to put. Any advice would be gratefully received.

Update:- new CAG advice is to ignore for now

[labman]

Re: MBNA to Moorcroft to Arden

It looks like a standard DCA threatogram to me. If this is the first time you've heard from them, I'd ignore it.

If they write again, I'd send them the 'Prove It' letter from post 4 here:

Dealing with DCA's - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

[leopard lady]

Re: MBNA to Moorcroft to Arden

I already did the CCA request to MBNA last year, does that make a difference?

[Bill-K]

Re: MBNA to Moorcroft to Arden

What was your response to the CCA request ? If MBNA or the DCA are unable to supply an enforceable agreement in court, then you are in a strong position. It means that they can ask you for repayment (to some extent) - but cannot enforce it.

The 'prove it' letter is essentially a denial of any liability for the alleged debt - until they can prove otherwise. Not the same thing - but they go hand in hand.

[Angry Cat]

Re: MBNA to Moorcroft to Arden

Advice:
Ignore for now.

[leopard lady]

Re: MBNA to Moorcroft to Arden

They did, I have attached the agreement they sent me which I was advised (CAG) has all the prescribed terms but may be a microfiche, never got a reply to the letter asking them to confirm they had the original.

[CleverClogs]

Re: MBNA to Moorcroft to Arden

They did, I have attached the agreement they sent me which I was advised (CAG) has all the prescribed terms but may be a microfiche, never got a reply to the letter asking them to confirm they had the original.

CAG is getting increasingly dim.

First of all, the first clause of this application form - for so it is - openly states:

These are paragraphs 1, 2 and 3 of your terms and conditions which contain the financial and related details. The rest of your terms and conditions (paragraphs 4 to 19) can be found in the full copy (which we must give you under the Consumer Credit Act 1974) which is enclosed.

So where is that "full copy"?

Secondly, clause 1c clearly states that Payment Protection Cover is included, whether or not one would want that. The form does not contain any option for selecting or rejecting such insurance cover.

Thirdly, one's right to cancel the agreement is mentioned just above the signature box, but that right is not explained there or anywhere else.

[leopard lady]

Re: MBNA to Moorcroft to Arden

I have now sent a SAR. I wasn't aware I had paid ppi!!! I'm not sure what the implications of all this are now. I thought that agreements could now be constituted from anything and that the cca situation is now not useable???

[Angry Cat]

Re: MBNA to Moorcroft to Arden

by MBNA:
We Strongly Recommend Payment Protection Cover

And I've never seen an MBNA postal application with the T&C's attached to the side...

What was the date of the application for credit?
Was it November 2002?

[leopard lady]

Re: MBNA to Moorcroft to Arden

Quite possibly, not got access to the original at the moment as not at home but think 2002 is about right. I recieved a blank application form and a set of terms and conditions alongside this. This was in January 2011, but as I was told it looked like it would stand up in court I never did anything about it.

You have got me worried now, have I not done something I should have done when I received this? :confused2:

[leopard lady]

Re: MBNA to Moorcroft to Arden

forgot to say I received another letter today, the same as yesterdays!!!

[leopard lady]

Re: MBNA to Moorcroft to Arden

It was signed 02/8/03

[CleverClogs]

Re: MBNA to Moorcroft to Arden

Quite possibly, not got access to the original at the moment as not at home but think 2002 is about right. I recieved a blank application form and a set of terms and conditions alongside this. This was in January 2011, but as I was told it looked like it would stand up in court I never did anything about it.

Whilst I obviously cannot be certain that this happened in your case, it has not been unknown for the Moronic Bunglers of North America to cobble together any old set of terms and conditions with a Xerox or microfiche print of the application form and claim that this meets the requirements of section 78 (link) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

What I cannot understand is why various banks or other card issuers have failed to keep the paperwork associated with the cards they gleefully handed out like an out of work actor giving out sweeties in Santa's Grotto.

[bluebottle]

Re: MBNA to Moorcroft to Arden

Hi Leopard Lady,

In all cases where there is doubt as to whether a debt is genuine or not, it is best to ask for a Certified Copy of the original agreement. A CC is a first-generation copy of the original agreement, endorsed with a legal statement and signed and dated in ink by someone authorised to sign the statement. It is likely the copy you have posted is a microfiched copy, which is not acceptable, as it is a second-generation copy. You have asked them to confirm any copy is a "true copy" and they have not done so. You are within your rights to regard this failure to confirm as evidence that the agreement is not genuine. Asking for a CC will have OCs and DCAs bleating about the Carey judgment and reconstituted/reconstructed agreements. As mentioned above, a CC is a first-generation copy and protects all parties involved - debtor, creditor and DCA. Start getting tough with them. If they don't like it, too bad.

[leopard lady]

Re: MBNA to Moorcroft to Arden

Thank you. Is there a template of a letter anywhere that I can use to ask for a first generation certified copy, and would I ask MBNA or Arden, please?