HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

[Streetwise]

Re: HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

Nope doesn't say anything of the sort.
This was all argued many years ago and is supported by shed loads of case law.
Won't argue about this with you any more you will have to learn the hard way it seems.

D

Ultra vires.

[Guest]

Re: HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

Ultra vires.

Ultra fidas

D

[Streetwise]

Re: HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

Ultra fidas

D

Post 170 and 173.:beagle:

[pt2537]

Re: HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

But it is a credit card agreement from 2002,and if not signed by both parties it is UE,the judge cannot enforce unless signed by the creditor and the debtor, its beyond power.

A judge can make a finding of fact that there was an agreement and that on balance it was signed.


This can be done on the basis of evidence from the parties.

Are you really going to suggest that say an event like the Iron Mountain fire would mean that the lenders who lost their agreements would be barred form getting their money cos they couldnt produce a signed agreement?

see the problem with your point of view

[pt2537]

Re: HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

This is why i say the burden shifts, the creditor need merely prove that there was a contractual relationship and there "WAS" an agreement . The burden then shifts over onto the Debtor to raise an allegation of improper execution See HFO v Patel and HFO v Wegmuller.

From there the burden shifts back to the creditor to prove the agreement was properly executed, provided the debtor has made a positive assertion

[Streetwise]

Re: HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

A judge can make a finding of fact that there was an agreement and that on balance it was signed.


This can be done on the basis of evidence from the parties.

Are you really going to suggest that say an event like the Iron Mountain fire would mean that the lenders who lost their agreements would be barred form getting their money cos they couldnt produce a signed agreement?

see the problem with your point of view

But I have the agreement ,and its not signed by the creditor,so if it goes to court I will produce the agreement that the creditor gave me and will argue that the agreement was not properly executed.

[pt2537]

Re: HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

But I have the agreement ,and its not signed by the creditor,so if it goes to court I will produce the agreement that the creditor gave me and will argue that the agreement was not properly executed.

Then you will be making a positive assertion that the agreement is not properly executed thus satisfying the burden that would have shifted onto you.

If it did go to court then i would place reliance on HFO v Patel, as that should assist you where the agreement is improperly executed but enforceable by court order only as HHJ Platts said the enforcement order must be on application and cannot be merely by implication only. That means if the bank takes an ignorant approach and gets to trial without seeking an order under s127(1) then it will struggle.

The mere fact the bank hasnt signed it does not mean it cannot be enforced though

[Streetwise]

Re: HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

Then you will be making a positive assertion that the agreement is not properly executed thus satisfying the burden that would have shifted onto you.

If it did go to court then i would place reliance on HFO v Patel, as that should assist you where the agreement is improperly executed but enforceable by court order only as HHJ Platts said the enforcement order must be on application and cannot be merely by implication only. That means if the bank takes an ignorant approach and gets to trial without seeking an order under s127(1) then it will struggle.

The mere fact the bank hasnt signed it does not mean it cannot be enforced though

Not a bank a credit card company,and its from 2002.

[pt2537]

Re: HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

Not a bank a credit card company,and its from 2002.

it dont matter if its a bank or credit card company really. What matters is that its regulated

[Guest]

Re: HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

But I have the agreement ,and its not signed by the creditor,so if it goes to court I will produce the agreement that the creditor gave me and will argue that the agreement was not properly executed.

It really is quite simple, if your agreement is only missing the creditors signature the court will enforce, no question, no matter what is said.

If the debtors signature is missing then you have a chance of proving the agreement is unenforceable under section127(3) of the act.
However you must state that no agreement was signed by you, not that you cant remember or you don't think it was, you must make a positive assertion.
Otherwise the judge may decide that it was probable that the agreement was signed by you, and that will be enough to enforce.

D

[Streetwise]

Re: HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

It really is quite simple, if your agreement is only missing the creditors signature the court will enforce, no question, no matter what is said.

If the debtors signature is missing then you have a chance of proving the agreement is unenforceable under section127(3) of the act.
However you must state that no agreement was signed by you, not that you cant remember or you don't think it was, you must make a positive assertion.
Otherwise the judge may decide that it was probable that the agreement was signed by you, and that will be enough to enforce.

D

Post 228.:smash:

[Guest]

Re: HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

Post 228.:smash:

If you have an argument please state it, it is not good enough to just keep quoting post numbers.

If you state what it is you do not understand perhaps we can help.

D

[Guest]

Re: HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

This one

61 Signing of agreement
(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—


(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed
terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the
prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the
creditor or owner, and

Sanctions for none compliance contained in this one

65 Consequences of improper execution
(1) An improperly -executed regulated agreement is enforceable against the debtor or hirer
on an order of the court only

Court order can
(and would) be obtained by this one

127 Enforcement orders in cases of infringement

(1) In the case of an application for an enforcement order under—
(a) section 65(1)(improperly executed agreements),

With reference to this subsection

(i) prejudice caused to any person by the contravention in question, and the
degree of culpability for it; and

Not this one

3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)
(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the
prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the
prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the
prescribed manner).

D

It all boils down to the above really.
If you can't understand this you are better;

A hire a solicitor or
B plead guilty and make attangements to pay.
D

[Streetwise]

Re: HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

It all boils down to the above really.
If you can't understand this you are better;

A hire a solicitor or
B plead guilty and make attangements to pay.
D

No help needed thanks,its just the law.:beagle:

[Guest]

Re: HELP. In Court vs Varde Investments/Hegarty LLP

No help needed thanks,its just the law.:beagle:

Unfortunately your understanding of it has to be the same as the courts.

Good luck