solicitor debt from dead mother

[klrob09]

Hi, my mother died on the 2nd january this year and left behind a number of debts one of which was a £4800 owing to a solicitors firm called canter levin and berg.
Me and my estranged sister applied for estate executors so we could sort through my late mothers things and close down her accounts because thats what the banks asked for. Anyway my sister is now refusing to pay anything towards my mothers debts and i have paid some off as best as i possibly could. However canter levin and berg are asking for the full amount there owed within 14 days or they will apply to county court! Ive written to them countless times stating I dont have the money but they just wont listen im at my wits end, its bad enough dealing with my mothers death and clearing up the mess she left but my sister not cooperating and the solicitors wanting money I dont know what to do???? Please help anyone!

[Caspar]

Re: solicitor debt from dead mother

Possibly one for The Debt Star - I'll pm him for you!

[The Debt Star]

Re: solicitor debt from dead mother

Hi, my mother died on the 2nd january this year and left behind a number of debts one of which was a £4800 owing to a solicitors firm called canter levin and berg.
Me and my estranged sister applied for estate executors so we could sort through my late mothers things and close down her accounts because thats what the banks asked for. Anyway my sister is now refusing to pay anything towards my mothers debts and i have paid some off as best as i possibly could. However canter levin and berg are asking for the full amount there owed within 14 days or they will apply to county court! Ive written to them countless times stating I dont have the money but they just wont listen im at my wits end, its bad enough dealing with my mothers death and clearing up the mess she left but my sister not cooperating and the solicitors wanting money I dont know what to do???? Please help anyone!

Hi klrob and thanks Caspar for the link.

Personal Representatives have a duty to pay the debts of the deceased and must do so with due diligence. Different rules as to the payment of debts apply depending on whether an estate is solvent or insolvent.

If the estate is solvent then the debts must be paid. If the estate is partially solvent then debts are paid pro rata and always in priority to any beneficiaries. If the estate is insolvent and cannot pay its liabilities then the debts are irrecoverable.

Only you know the position regarding the solvency of the estate.

Funeral, testamentary and administration expenses take priority over over debts. This is covered in the Administration of Estates Act 1925.

If the solicitor's bill relates to testamentary and adminstration expenses then it is a priority bill. Otherwise it is a debt of the deceased like any other and will have to take its place in the settlement of the debts generally. What do their legal costs relate to?

Creditors generally have to wait until the Grant of Representation is obtained by the PRs, since most of the assets cannot be encashed until a Grant is produced to the financial institutions with whom the deceased held her investments. However this is not always the case and often banks permit the withdrawal of funds without a Grant iof the estate is small. It all depends on the esatte and tehy vary enormously, so without much detail from you relating to the size of the estate and the nature of its assets, we cannot provide more than generic opinions here.

The PRs are not compelled to pay the deceased's liabilities as a testamentary expense (which they can later reclaim from the estate). Often,as stated, creditors just have to wait until the estate is in funds.

I would imagine that the solicitors you mention are just concerned that they won't get paid.

[CleverClogs]

Re: solicitor debt from dead mother

Hi, my mother died on the 2nd january this year and left behind a number of debts one of which was a £4800 owing to a solicitors firm called canter levin and berg.

May one know how that alleged debt was incurred?

Me and my estranged sister applied for estate executors so we could sort through my late mothers things and close down her accounts because thats what the banks asked for. Anyway my sister is now refusing to pay anything towards my mothers debts

Quite right, too.

Neither she nor you is liable for your late mother's debts, as those are only liable to be paid from her estate after paying Inheritance Tax - if any - and funerary expenses.

and i have paid some off as best as i possibly could.

You should not have paid anything from your own assets.

However canter levin and berg are asking for the full amount there owed within 14 days or they will apply to county court! Ive written to them countless times stating I dont have the money but they just wont listen im at my wits end, its bad enough dealing with my mothers death and clearing up the mess she left but my sister not cooperating and the solicitors wanting money I dont know what to do???? Please help anyone!

Have you told those shysters that your mother has died and that you are applying for a grant of probate or for letters of administration if she died without having made a will?

Has probate been granted, giving the executors access to the estate and its assets?

Is the estate solvent - can it pay the debts incurred by your late mother?

If the estate could pay that bill but you're still waiting for probate, have you told those lawyers that you will pay as soon as you are able?

If the estate is insolvent, have you informed the creditors of that fact?

If you have already taken those steps outlined above and they are trying to chase you, personally, for the debt, refer the oafs to the Solicitors' Regulatory Authority - link - as such antics could bring the legal profession into disrepute.

[The Debt Star]

Re: solicitor debt from dead mother

Klrob, all good questions from CC.

[klrob09]

Re: solicitor debt from dead mother

Hi guys,
many thanks for your quick replys. The debt is from when my mother was alive and they took up a probate case for her, as soon as we were aware that she was seriously ill we notified them and then subsequently done the same when she passed away. The bill apparently goes back to august 2010 up until she died in january. She was in intensive care for 3 weeks prior to dying so they knew she was very poorly. The probate grant was granted in march and split between me and my estranged sister, from the money i was given i have paid funeral costs, banks, mortgages and given the solicitors a goodwill 500 cheque. My sister refuses to pay any.

[Caspar]

Re: solicitor debt from dead mother

I know almost nothing about this area of law, but from what I read above the monies you have paid should have been paid from your late mother's estate. I would guess therefore there is no obligation beyond a moral one for your sister to pay anything.

[WendyB]

Re: solicitor debt from dead mother

I could be getting this wrong, and please don't take offence, but shouldn't the debts have been paid from the estate before the beneficiaries (you and your sister0 had any money?

[The Debt Star]

Re: solicitor debt from dead mother

I could be getting this wrong, and please don't take offence, but shouldn't the debts have been paid from the estate before the beneficiaries (you and your sister0 had any money?

That's what I am saying at post #3 Wendy.

The solicitors should be paid from the estate for the work your mother instructed them to undertake.
You can and should claim back your out of pocket expenses insofar as they are connected with the administration of the estate.

What's left is distributed to the beneficiaries.

[CleverClogs]

Re: solicitor debt from dead mother

I could be getting this wrong, and please don't take offence, but shouldn't the debts have been paid from the estate before the beneficiaries (you and your sister) had any money?

They should.

If both beneficiaries were joint executors of the estate, then they are jointly and severally liable for that debt up to the limit of their bequests.

But I'd certainly want to know what the solicitors did to run up that bill.

[Pinky69]

Re: solicitor debt from dead mother

I wouldn't worry about it on a personal basis. You have done everything you could to settle your Mother's debts from her estate. If your sister has taken money from the estate before settling the bills, which is against the law, then she will be ordered to hand it over in court if the creditors sue.

[The Debt Star]

Re: solicitor debt from dead mother

You state that your mother instructed the lawyers on a prior probate matter. Although she was personally liable for such costs in her capacity (I assume) as the Personal Representative for that estate, the solicitors' fees are connected with that estate and should be paid from THAT estate as a testamentary expense and most certainly NOT from your mother's estate.

If you could tell us a little more about the estate your mother was involved with that would be helpful.

[TUTTSI]

Re: solicitor debt from dead mother

i have just looked up this firm Canter, Levin & Berg on the internet they a 14 partner firm.

It would be interesting to see what the work entailed which your mother instructed them to do on this probate matter, what exactly she agreed to in terms of fees when she instructed them. As I am sure that she would have signed an agreement and it would have set out what work they would be doing, who would be responsible for the payment and if she had paid any upfront monies on account. Normally firms of this size do not as far as I am aware take on work without knowing that there fees would be covered,

One thing is for sure is that they cannot harrass you and as Solicitors they should be aware of this and if they continue to harrass you then you will have to spell it out for them and we will give you help in this.

[klrob09]

Re: solicitor debt from dead mother

Hi everyone thanks for the helpful replys, when my mother was alive she was contesting the estate of her dead partner who hung himself in march of 2010, they had savings accounts together and lived together but when her partner commited suicide his family took entire control of his estate and anything that was in it and pretty much lost everything to them, so she took the case to a solicitor and they (canter levin and berg) took the case on, i assume they thought they were going to get paid from the dead partners estate as they told her she had a very strong case. Anyway in december 2010 my mum contracted swine flu and was in intensive care for 3 weeks then subsequently died 3 weeks later. When we spoke to a member of canter levin and berg they said oh ok we will stop the case immediately then and she wont be entitled to anything from the deceased partners estate now shes died!

Too wendy, well i thought thats what happend to a deceased estate the debts get taken out first but ive personally had to go around to my mums debtors and settle bills myself, but I suppose that goes with eveything thats happend.

[CleverClogs]

Re: solicitor debt from dead mother

Hi everyone thanks for the helpful replys, when my mother was alive she was contesting the estate of her dead partner who hung himself in march of 2010, they had savings accounts together and lived together but when her partner commited suicide his family took entire control of his estate and anything that was in it and pretty much lost everything to them, so she took the case to a solicitor and they (canter levin and berg) took the case on, i assume they thought they were going to get paid from the dead partners estate as they told her she had a very strong case. Anyway in december 2010 my mum contracted swine flu and was in intensive care for 3 weeks then subsequently died 3 weeks later. When we spoke to a member of canter levin and berg they said oh ok we will stop the case immediately then and she wont be entitled to anything from the deceased partners estate now shes died!

That is plainly and patently piffle, as any monies she had inherited would be added to her estate had she lived longer.

Had her late partner made a will or did he die intestate?