Has anyone heard of Telogram??

[CleverClogs]

Re: Has anyone heard of Telogram??

I would go along with the usual advice given here - don't engage in a telephone conversation - if you must deal with them, everything in writing for a good 'papertrail'

Generally, yes, but as we are discussing Crapquest's rather odd 'investigative' division which seems even more reluctant than the parent company to stick to the rules, telling an untruth to a provable liar may be a reasonable course to take.

[charitynjw]

Re: Has anyone heard of Telogram??

(However, being "economical with the actualité" has been known to bring down governments - but we don't want to hi-jack the thread!) lol

[smelltheglove1]

Re: Has anyone heard of Telogram??

Telogram changed its name from Telogram to Data Verification Services Limited in January this year, probably in the hope they cannot be traced. The Officers listed above in the OFT public register are the Officers of Capquest. They either leave a voicemail and say there is a parcel to be collected or they write and say if you don't reply they will contact the neighbours. They leave no ID on the phone, which is an unfair practice.

I have just now emailed the OFT telling them what is happening but I hope you do too Chrissie as it is better coming from someone it has actually happened to. They should be heavily fined for this.

Hi to all - new to this forum.

I've lived abroad (outside the EU) since 2004.

Since I was planning to visit family in the UK, a few weeks ago I booked a train ticket with TransPennine Express and gave a family members address as my own in order for the tickets to be delivered to me there. Within a fortnight, my family member had received a letter addressed to me from DVSL carrying the standard formula: if I was "such a person" who used to live at "such an address," and asking me to ring 0800 5426412 and quoting a reference number.

Cursory internet searches of message boards such as this one, fortunately now leads me to suspect that DVSL are what is commonly known as a 'bottom-feeder' debt collection company. This means it buys up junk debt for a few pence in the pound and then tries to pursue the 'debtor' for it. Although they are still legally entitled to pursue the debtor, unfortunately for them there is nothing they can do to enforce payment. They can only harass or use scare tactics.

My main concern, however, is that someone at TransPennine Express appears to have passed on the information I used to buy the train tickets to DVSL. I would have thought that this is a breach of the data protection statute?

Could anyone enlighten me whether, if indeed TransPennine did this, they have breached any law?

Thanks.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Has anyone heard of Telogram??

To whom are/were you alleged to owe money?

If it has not been pursued since 2004, it will be impossible to enforce now (section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980 - link) unless a County Court judgement had been entered against you and, even then, that could only be enforced by leave of the court.

If your data were passed on by TransPennine, they would appear to have made an improper disclosure contrary to the law, but could your data have been disclosed by the payment handling service?

[smelltheglove1]

Re: Has anyone heard of Telogram??

Hi Clever Clogs,

Thanks for the clarification.

I suspect DVLS were acting in respect of an old bank loan. I was paying this off, but had domestic responsibilities outside the UK which I could no longer avoidI didn't consider the payment handling service I must say. I have paid by credit card using UK companies many times previously; using the same address for delivery, but this is the first time such a thing has happened.

I think I will have to put my suspicions to TransPennine and here what they have to say for themselves. The problem is, that would mean giving them my address and habitual residence. Take your point about the statute of limitations, but I'm still not thrilled at the prospect of being inundated by debt collection letters and possibly worse.

Is the payment handling service under any duty to disclose this information, or would such disclosure by them also be improper? Any ideas how could I found out the name of the payment handling service - would this be printed in the credit card statement?

Thanks again for your input.

[basharun]

Re: Has anyone heard of Telogram??

Hi Clever Clogs,

Thanks for the clarification.

I suspect DVLS were acting in respect of an old bank loan. I was paying this off, but had domestic responsibilities outside the UK which I could no longer avoidI didn't consider the payment handling service I must say. I have paid by credit card using UK companies many times previously; using the same address for delivery, but this is the first time such a thing has happened.

I think I will have to put my suspicions to TransPennine and here what they have to say for themselves. The problem is, that would mean giving them my address and habitual residence. Take your point about the statute of limitations, but I'm still not thrilled at the prospect of being inundated by debt collection letters and possibly worse.

Is the payment handling service under any duty to disclose this information, or would such disclosure by them also be improper? Any ideas how could I found out the name of the payment handling service - would this be printed in the credit card statement?

Thanks again for your input.

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I'm also a former Capquest employee (trace agent), but am in no way here to defend or represent them. In fact, quite the opposite.

To answer your specific question, I don't think TransPennine gave your private information to Capquest, and I wouldn't worry about that. To explain why I think so, I'll have to go into a bit of detail about how Capquest traces people:

Firstly, Capquest's business is tracing and collecting debt. They do this either on behalf of other companies for a commission, or (mostly) to make a profit from debt that they've bought from other companies. Capquest has 2 primary departments, tracing, and collections. Now, for the purpose of the tracing function, they've registered the name Telogram as a company. The idea behind this being that when a tracer calls you, your family, or neighbours he can't say that he's calling from Capquest because Capquest is a well known debt collection company, and your family or neighbours will then know that you have debt and this will be a breach of Data Protection. On the other hand, the tracer cannot lie when asked where his calling from, so the solution (according to Capquest policy) is to say that he's calling from Telogram (which is a registered company) and Telogram's business is "sending correspondence" on behalf of its "clients". Notice that none of this is technically untrue if you think of Capquest as the "client" of Telogram.
Of course, this is all just a clever trick by Capquest, and personally I think the real reason why they prefer not to say the call is from Capquest, is because people would then not be as co-operative in giving information about the person they're trying to trace. Also the very name "Telogram" was chosen specifically because people will confuse it with the "telegram" service. I've personally had many experiences where this alone helped my work as a tracer. In early 2011 the name was changed from Telogram to Data Verification Services Limited (DVSL), due to sufficient complaints to statutory bodies about the name being deceptive. The name DVSL, however, was ALSO carefully and specifically chosen so that it can be confused with the DVLA (this was actually stated by a department manager to us when the new name was announced).
Anyway, just remember that DVSL (previously Telogram) exists only on paper, and any communication from them, is actually from Capquest.
Now, when someone, let's say John, receives a call or a letter from DVSL, then that means that it's from the trace department at Capquest. In other words, they can't collect money from John yet because they need to trace his residential address first. On the other hand, when John receives a call or a letter from Capquest, then it's from their collections department, and it means that they've already traced John (correctly or incorrectly).

When a trace agent tries to trace John's current address, even if he's unsuccessful, he is still able to process "fishing" letters to any other related addresses found for John, such as previous addresses, family addresses, or possible unconfirmed new addresses. This is to illicit some sort of response from these addresses that could lead to tracing John. I believe you've received such a letter. These letters will state something along the lines of: "We are trying on behalf of our client to reestablish contact with John Doe, previously of 23 Hammer Road, London. Please contact the number below...etc".
The point of all this is that Capquest probably knows that you don't live at your relative's address (or they don't have enough confirmation that you DO live there), and they haven't been able to trace you yet.

Ok, but where did they get your relative's address from? Not from TransPennine, I'm almost certain.
I can tell you, though, that Capquest trace agents have very sophisticated resources available to them. They use software that combines information from databases like the BT telephone directory, voters roll, experian, equifax etc. etc, and it's not that difficult with this information, plus phoning you, family, neighbours etc, to get a reasonable picture of your history and movements. For, example, with the telephone directory and voters roll info, they can see who you lived with at a previous address, and guess from that who your relatives are. Then using that previous address and the Experian database, they can find a new address for those relatives. So, there are many ways they could've found your family member's address.

With regards to what you should do about Capquest, I'm going to suggest seeking legal advise about the debt. Having said that, here is my inside advice. As clever as Capquest is with its tricks, there is a very simple way to stifle their efforts, as long as you fully understand the consequences, namely that avoiding paying the debt (if it IS a valid, legally enforceable debt) may lead to you having a bad credit report. Notwithstanding that, here is my inside info:
The fact that that you live abroad counts in your favour, since it's much harder for Capquest to trace your address and collect from you. Before they can collect a cent from you, or start any form of legal action against you, they first HAVE to trace your current address. Even if they do manage to get your correct current address (and phone number), you can STILL stifle them. Here's how. When a trace agent traces your current address, your account then gets passed to their collections department. The collections department will either phone you or send you letters (from "Capquest", not DVSL). Now, if you or anyone else tell them that "John doesn't live at this address, this is the wrong address", or return their letters and stating the same message, then your account will be taken out of their collections department and passed back to the trace department. It will be deemed as an incorrect trace. Then the whole trace process has to start all over again, except this time the next trace agent who works your account CANNOT trace it back to that address without getting verbal confirmation from someone (you, a relative, a neighbours, anyone who knows you) that you do in fact currently live there.
Then, even if they do manage to get this confirmation and trace the account again, it will again go to their collections department, and you can again tell them that it's the wrong address and, again, they will have to send it back to the trace department, and again they will need verbal confirmation before they can trace it. At each turn it becomes more and more difficult to trace the account because the number of people to phone for verbal confirmation diminishes (you can imagine that your granny, or a neighbour will quickly become fed up with them for calling to get your address when they've already given it previously). The point of all of this is that they are unable to collect from you. Eventually (6 years after the last time you paid on the account or acknowledged the debt - 5 years in Scotland), your debt will be statute barred and they won't be able to legally enforce the debt.

As I said above, though, there are consequences: 1. Your credit report. 2. The balance on the debt may increase over time due to interest and other charges. 3. Periodically, you or family or neighbours may be bothered with calls and letters from them.

And, again, I'm not a legal expert, so if you have any concerns about this, seek legal advice.
I hope this info is helpful.

[wales01man]

Re: Has anyone heard of Telogram??

WOW isnt the fleet adress the same for other debt cos?

[miliitant]

Re: Has anyone heard of Telogram??

quote

or start any form of legal action against you, they first HAVE to trace your current address

i just need confirmation on the above statement.

i was under the impression that all the creditor had to do was send a court claim form to your last known address

where does it state they have to confirm you still abide at that address

[basharun]

Re: Has anyone heard of Telogram??

quote

or start any form of legal action against you, they first HAVE to trace your current address

i just need confirmation on the above statement.

i was under the impression that all the creditor had to do was send a court claim form to your last known address

where does it state they have to confirm you still abide at that address

I'm not a legal expert, and hopefully someone else will be able to clarify that, but to my thinking before a creditor will send a claim form (containing private information about you) to an address, they need to be reasonably certain that you live there, or else they risk breaching Data Protection. Particularly if there has already been contact from that address stating that you DO NOT live there, the creditor will be reluctant to send correspondence containing sensitive and private information there, as it knows it could be taken to task for that. So, for that reason only, and not because they legally can't, I think Capquest doesn't take the legal action route if an account hasn't been traced. You will notice that NO correspondence or contact from DVSL or Telogram ever contains private information (or enough private information to breach DPA). That's because those accounts haven't beed traced. Only correspondence from Capquest (or HL Legal), in other words traced accounts, will contain private information, such as account numbers, outstanding amounts etc). That's an indication of how scared they are of DPA.

I'm not sure if they can or can't take legal action without knowing your current address, but I can tell you what their practices are. In my experience, I'm not aware of them taking action on accounts that were not in their collections department (IOW. accounts that were traced).

What you have to remember about Capquest, is that they are essentially playing the numbers game, while (reluctantly) trying to stick to certain laws like DPA and disregarding other laws where they can. They've done the risk/benefits assessments of all of this, and they will attempt to get away with anything as long as they can.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Has anyone heard of Telogram??

What you have to remember about Capquest, is that they are essentially playing the numbers game, while (reluctantly) trying to stick to certain laws like DPA and disregarding other laws where they can. They've done the risk/benefits assessments of all of this, and they will attempt to get away with anything as long as they can.

So it would appear.

They seem to have misinformed Companies House, the Information Commissioner and/or the Office of Fair Trading concerning their location. Please see the attached files.

The entry at Companies House states that they are based in Basingstoke and gives their previous name of Telogram Limited which they changed on 21/01/2011.

The entry on the Register of Data Controller also states they are based in Basingstoke.

Their Consumer Credit Licence, however, makes no mention of Basingstoke and gives the same address as CapQuest. A look at the history of that licence - DVSL 3.PDF - shews that they were planning to change their name from Telogram Limited as long ago as October 2009.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Has anyone heard of Telogram??

Who the buggery is Gary Trappett?

Whilst looking through the Register of Data Controller for CapQuest, I found the 'gent' named above. He holds a current Consumer Credit Licence, too.

Please see the attached files:

[basharun]

Re: Has anyone heard of Telogram??

So it would appear.

They seem to have misinformed Companies House, the Information Commissioner and/or the Office of Fair Trading concerning their location. Please see the attached files.

The entry at Companies House states that they are based in Basingstoke and gives their previous name of Telogram Limited which they changed on 21/01/2011.

The entry on the Register of Data Controller also states they are based in Basingstoke.

Their Consumer Credit Licence, however, makes no mention of Basingstoke and gives the same address as CapQuest. A look at the history of that licence - DVSL 3.PDF - shews that they were planning to change their name from Telogram Limited as long ago as October 2009.

I see what you mean. I have no explanation for this other than just to note that the ICO and Companies House registers refer to the Basingstoke address (which I'm not familiar with) as their "registered office", meaning it could just be the address of their solicitors or accountants, or whoever did the registration for them. The OFT register shows the Fleet address as their Location/place of business, which is correct.
However, the OFT register shows a different registered office, Barbirolli Square, Manchester. That is odd to me.

Another thing that caught my eye is that according to the ICO (data Protection register) DVSL's license is not transferable outside the European Economic Union. That's interesting considering one of their 3 call centres is in Cape Town, South Africa.
Their possible defense here might be that DVSL doesn't actually employ anyone, and that the private data is handled by Capquest employees. It would be interesting to see if Capquest's data controllers license IS transferable outside the EU. If not then their Cape Town office should be shut down.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Has anyone heard of Telogram??

Another thing that caught my eye is that according to the ICO (data Protection register) DVSL's license is not transferable outside the European Economic Union. That's interesting considering one of their 3 call centres is in Cape Town, South Africa.
Their possible defense here might be that DVSL doesn't actually employ anyone, and that the private data is handled by Capquest employees. It would be interesting to see if Capquest's data controllers license IS transferable outside the EU. If not then their Cape Town office should be shut down.

The entries for both Capquest Debt Recovery Ltd (CQ1 Information Commissioners - Data Protection Register - Entry Details.pdf) and Capquest Investments Ltd (CQ2 Information Commissioners - Data Protection Register - Entry Details.pdf) shew 'worldwide' data transfers.

[basharun]

Re: Has anyone heard of Telogram??

The entries for both Capquest Debt Recovery Ltd (CQ1 Information Commissioners - Data Protection Register - Entry Details.pdf) and Capquest Investments Ltd (CQ2 Information Commissioners - Data Protection Register - Entry Details.pdf) shew 'worldwide' data transfers.

Thanks.
I see that according to this license the data subjects are "customers and clients". Can "debtors" of accounts which Capquest have bought be legally defined as their "customers or clients"? I might just be nitpicking here, but on the other hand, this could be an angle of attack (or defence) against Capquest. If you are a client/customer of Natwest, but then they sell your "defaulted" account to Capquest, are you now a client/customer of Capquest? To my uninformed mind a business-client/customer relationship exists when there is an exchange, eg. Product or service in return for money. So, since Capquest hasn't given any product or service to its "debtors", then these "debtors" are not Capquest's clients/customers.
Would be grateful if any legal expert can give some input on this.