Can I Hold these people off?

[dont like cabot]

Hi, I had a Credit card with a bank, long story I wont go into, but hit financial trouble a couple of years ago, had just under 60k worth of debt, which I have all but paid off, last of this was the CC.
I made arrangements to pay them, but just as I was getting back on my feet,the Bank sold this off to Cabot.
I sent a SAR off to the Bank for copies off all info etc and in the meantime I held off Cabot by putting the account into dispute. (Had been making token gestures until I could find out all the details)
Got the material sent to me by the bank--statements--Copy of terms and conditions-copy of the application (No agreement) and some other bumf they had, computer sceen print outs and the like, but no copies of any default--Notice of Termination--Notice of Assignment.
I have been fobbing Cabot off since the SAR, but now they say the Bank has sent me what I asked and now I have to pay.
Since the SAR I have sent the bank three letters demanding to see copies of the Default-NoT-NoA, they replied once, saying they do not keep copies of the Default notice as this is computer generated, but have failed to mention the other two things I require, as I believe these are Statuatory documents.
I sent first letter to bank about this back in October, am I within my rights to tell them now that they are in Default since they have not fully complied with my SAR, and it will remain so until they do?
And should I tell Cabot to get stuffed until the Bank Complies?
(Was sent a poor photocopy of a NoA by Cabot when they first got in touch, but it came inside the welcome letter)
Any info/help with this would be welcome

[dont like cabot]

Re: Can I Hold these people off?

Hi all,
I would like to thank everyone for the help, much appreciated--thank you

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Can I Hold these people off?

Did you specifcally request copies of the n.o.t and n.o.a in the request if you did they are in default of that request until they comply.

If you did not send another request making it clear exactly what you require.

Sorry for the delay

Regards

[dont like cabot]

Re: Can I Hold these people off?

After the SAR-Yes I did, nothing back--until today!!
I was sent by HBoS a reconstituted copy of a Default Notice saying they apologise for me not receiving it, but here it is and how it should have been sent to you!!!, nothing else.
After reading the letter today (attached to the re-constituted default) it apologised to for me not receiving a copy of this in May 2007, they go onto say, we sold your debt debt to Cabot in Jan 2009--(Cabot sent me a letter telling me they bought the debt in Nov 2008 with a very poor copy of a HBoS NoA. ) (On HBoS headed paper)
I couldnt stop myself--HBoS gave me a number to call, so I called it to ask if indeed they had sold this to Cabot in 2009, the girl on the phone told me, she would look into this with Blair Oliver and Scott who had passed tis to Carboot and call me back ASAP, I asked her if she could check with BOaS the NoA and NoT ==so she called back 15 mins later and told me BOaS had confirmed that the debt had been sold to Cabot in Jan 2009 (I cant believe I have been so lucky), but they didnt know anything about the NoT and NoA, but would get someone else to contact me today about the missing NoT and NoA.
So someone is going to call me about this today--when they call I will be very nice and ask them to send me a NoA for my records so I can start to pay this off--and hopefully they will send me a a copy of the NoA from Jan 2009 which is completley the opposite of which Carboot have told me--any thoughts of how to proceed?
Thank you for the reply

[Caspar]

Re: Can I Hold these people off?

Again, apologies for the delay, and I can understand the sarcasm. I scour these forums for hours each day and have not even seen this post till now. Sometimes so many people post they get bumped of the first page and that's it! You did the right thiing to bump it.

As regards your problem, the NOA may well be covered by the poor version sent in the welcome pack, as long as it is legible. As far as the other two go:

A default notice is a formal letter sent to you by a lender or creditor if you are in arrears with your account. Creditors and lenders are legally obliged to advise you formally in writing that you have missed payments.



(Straight from Payplan so I imagine it will be correct)

The termination follows from the Default Notice, without a DN they cannot normallyterminate. With a DN they can, but are bound by the CCA 1974 and complying with the necessary subsquent procedures such as S89.

Where they can terminate the CCA 1974 says:
98 Duty to give notice of termination (non-default cases).E+W+S+N.I.

(1)The creditor or owner is not entitled to terminate a regulated agreement except by or after giving the debtor or hirer not less than seven days’ notice of the termination.


Unless they're using this as their cop out:


(6)Subsection (1) does not apply to the termination of a regulated agreement by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of the agreement.


Given the above, it is theoretically possible for them to be within the law as I read it, but only if you'd met the conditions which meant they were allowed to take such extreme action.

[dont like cabot]

Re: Can I Hold these people off?

Hi Caspar, thanks for getting back to me--after they sold this to cabot, I was working away and they conctacted my Fiancee on this--She told me the info over the phone, so I contacted them and made token payments till I got home--I know I owe this, and was paying--after I got home I sent SAR and got the info sent to me minus what I mentioned.
I wrote back to HBoS asking for copies of the Default (as they never sent me one) NoT and NoA--I had one reply saying they sent me one but dont have a copy on file (BLLX) so therefor cant send me a copy!!!!
I sent a CPR telling I needed a true and verified copy blah blah--I got this today--I think I hit the jackpot with the reply--completely contradicting Cabot!!
What do you think
(Apologies for the sarcasm--plenty people reading, but no comments, including MODs
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Forgot to mention--I know the DCA can issue a NoA--but now I have two different dates for it!! Lucky me

[toomanycalls]

Re: Can I Hold these people off?

Even if its been terminated the account may still be held by the OC so no NOA necessary, I have a number of accounts doing the DCA merry go round but only one was actually sold, the others are mearly being collected on behalf of the OC.

[Caspar]

Re: Can I Hold these people off?

That's precisely why I was making the distinction between an Equitable Assignment where they just try and collect on behalf of the OC (as the first paragraph suggests when they refer to "our client.") and an Absolute Assignment where they purchase the debt with all its rights and DUTIES (Critical wording) which means they effectively now become the OC. They suggest they are acting in this capacity in a later paragraph, so I think they're being a little deceptive - no great surprises there.

Regardless, even with an equitable assignment there is a clear expectation that if they don't hold the documentation requested, they have to pass it to the OC to deal with asap and the 12+2 day deadline still stands, then into default, though TBH, in my opinion doing this just buys you time now, as the ability and acceptance of reconstituted agreements in courts means the lack of an original holds little water.

Yes, I know there's a whole other argument as to whether or not this should be the case, and according to law, no it definitely shouldn't, but you have to play on the playing field you've got, and that's how it is at the present.

[lifeisagift017]

Re: Can I Hold these people off?

cabot financial are a debt purchase company so they probably bought your accounts as part of like a pack so the standard reply law doesnt apply as they have to find archived items the ebest thing to do it enter into a plan for minimal payments of 1pounds per month and jus tsay its all you can afford!

[Garlok]

Re: Can I Hold these people off?

Statute Law applies to everyone. Suggest a real look at CCA1974, Copies of Docs regs SI1556 and CCA regs 1983 SI1553.

Endemic systemic failure does not allow anyoine to flout the law.

regards
Garlok.

[lifeisagift017]

Re: Can I Hold these people off?

Precisley but if your just looking to hold off and make minimal payments then pay off what you owe then thats fine the problem your facing is that Cabot and other companies are aware people try and beat the system but as i found out there are people there who are actually human! Some of them help as well!

[Angry Cat]

Re: Can I Hold these people off?

Precisley but if your just looking to hold off and make minimal payments then pay off what you owe then thats fine the problem your facing is that Cabot and other companies are aware people try and beat the system but as i found out there are people there who are actually human! Some of them help as well!

With respect, Cabot (Apex Management) help people?

Debt recovery, is commission driven;
the telephone operatives are commission driven:
bonus at the end of the month.

These firms buy up bucket loads of toxic debt portfolios;
some good, some bad.

And, in many cases it is not about beating the system, it is about the general consumers "Rights" under;
the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and 2006;
the Consumer Protection form Unfair Trading Regulations 1983;
the Consumer Credit Directive and;
the Data Prtoection Act 1998.

I could add more Regs and subordinate Regs. However, I believe that the point has been well and truly made:beagle:

[WendyB]

Re: Can I Hold these people off?

But AC, it has to be said that for every vulnerable person, there is probably another one trying to beat the system.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Can I Hold these people off?

But AC, it has to be said that for every vulnerable person, there is probably another one trying to beat the system.

Many, many Consumers have had their (alleged) debts sold on to DCA's;
some have no knowledge about the alleged debt(s)...

The OP, passed the buck to the debt buyers and in many cases whilst the debt was in dispute.
The 'General Consumer' has 'Rights' and should employ same.

It is not about beating the system!:beagle:

[WendyB]

Re: Can I Hold these people off?

Many, many Consumers have had their (alleged) debts sold on to DCA's;
some have no knowledge about the alleged debt(s)...

The OP, passed the buck to the debt buyers and in many cases whilst the debt was in dispute.
The 'General Consumer' has 'Rights' and should employ same.

I'm not disputing that, merely making the point that not everyone is a vulnerable consumer, some are trying to beat the system, there is no question of it.

Maybe we should remember that CCA etc, is not, and should not be used as, a GODOF card.

Not everyone is genuinely vulnerable. One size doesn't necessarily fit all.


Maybe we should take this discussion elsewhere, so as not to detract from the thread.