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Debt Purchasing- could an expert have a look?

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  • Debt Purchasing- could an expert have a look?

    We have read about a certain CMC who is purchasing debts, but never revealed the legislation they use. Below is an explanation from someone who I beleive is an agent for them. He has posted on this subject arguing the toss against Curly ben. However, I am not 'wired' up right to understand this jargon, so I will post it here to see if there is anything in it.
    Good luck.

    Read the section within Treitel on contracts detailing the "conditional benefit principle
    Assignments of Contractual Rights
    The burden of a contract cannot in principle be transferred so as to discharge the original contracting party without the consent of the other party. There are two exceptions. If the contractual rights have been assigned, those rights will be subject to the original contract. An instance of this, Britain & Overseas Trading Ltd v Brooks Wharf Ltd, an exemption clause in the original contract was binding on the assignee of the contract. Such cases are examples of the "conditional benefit" principle. This principle applies where the right which has been assigned is on the condition that certain restrictions are observed. These are an intrinsic part of the right, so that the burden is annexed to the benefit of the contract. Therefore, the person with the benefit must perform the burden, or otherwise forego the benefit. Whether a conditional benefit arises is dependent upon the proper construction of the contract.
    Also the following is from Jeffery Jenkins vs Young Brothers Transport ltd
    Williams’ submission reflects what according to Treitel is the "general rule", namely that the assignee of a benefit of a contract makes no promise to perform the obligation’s of the assignor and in such a case, the assignee does not become liable under the contract. (See Young v Kitchin [1878] 3EX.D.127).

    However, Treitel sets out exceptions to this general rule (see Treitel page 702). An example is where the obligation to perform a contract in place of the assignor is annexed to the assignment of the benefit of the contract. Where this is the case, the assignee must perform the burden of the contract or forego the benefit if he fails to do so. Treitel describes this as the "conditional benefit principle", which arises where the right assigned is conditional or qualified, the condition being that certain restrictions should be observed or certain burdens assumed (see Tito v Waddell (No.2) 290 et seq)

    So the benefits of debt are intrinsically linked to the burden of the debt. Basil has bought the benefits and he can't profit from the benefits of the debt without also taking on the burden.

    You can't assign the burden of a contract but Debt falls under the conditional benefit principle so the burden is part of the benefit.
    Thats why banks have no liability once they sell the debt on. If banks could only sell the benefits of a contract then they would be open to court action from debtors for incorrectly drawn up agreements even after the sale of the debt.

    When Debt purchasing companies/debt collectors buy debt from banks they take on the benefit of the contract and along with that the burden. If this is not the case then the question in regards to the complete and total diminished liability of a lender post sale of a debt still remains a mystery.

  • #2
    Re: Debt Purchasing- could an expert have a look?

    The belief is that the sale (assignment) in this case supersedes CCA.
    As CCA is a "special" case of contract law I don't believe that this is actually lawful.

    While we know that the assignment of debts to DCA is accomplished via Law of Property 1925 s136, the debts are STILL governed by CCA and all that entails. Under LoP the debtor must be informed of the sale via registered post, see s196 of LoP.

    As I have already said to some "agents" that have been to this site, what legal baises does Mr R have for the purchasing of these debts in this manner.
    As expected we have been met with silence.

    Now there is mention of the debts having to be terminated BEFORE any such sale.
    Now if the contract is indeed terminated in this manner then CCA (mostly) doesn't apply as it is no longer in action, the same goes for LoP.

    So where does this leave us, well about as informed as ever, ie no where.
    Last edited by Curlyben; 22nd December 2009, 19:39:PM. Reason: wrong subsection of LoP

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Debt Purchasing- could an expert have a look?

      There's also this as well Curly,, does it make any sense? ( some of it does to me, but then what do I know?)

      Its important to look at what the lenders do and to look at the contract itself
      Now within the contract often you'll find a clause which reads along the lines of:

      You are not allowed to sell/assign or transfer any of your rights or obligations under this contract "
      The above clause is often referred to as a boiler plate clause. Now the question that must arise and that you must ask yourself is:
      Why has the lender felt the need to write such a clause within the contract?

      This is an extremely important question that needs to be investigated. If a debtor cannot sell his debt or transfer any liability over to a 3rd party then what would be the need for such a clause within his contract

      you and I would never do anything needlessly would we? The clause is there and its there for a reason.

      If you and I signed a contract for you to wash my car everyday and within the contract I placed a clause that prevented you from picking up my car with your bear hands and flying to London with it what would be your reaction. your reaction would be one of amusement as picking up a car and flying with it is not humanly possible. Therefore you'd point out to me that there would be no need for such a clause to be inserted.

      So the lender has placed a clause and he knows its crucial that the clause is there.
      the lender is preventing the seller from selling the debt. So the second question that arises is:
      If the clause was not there would that then mean that a debtor could then sell his debt?

      Clearly the answer is Yes otherwise the lender would not have felt the need to place the clause within the contract.

      Now termination of the contract relieves both parties of any obligation to perform under the terms of the contract. Any clauses within the contract are no longer applicable. Yes the debtor then has a post contractual liability/obligation to repay the debt but nothing more and he is free to contract with whomever he so wishes.

      The second point that needs to be investigated in regards to the lenders action is the sale of debt by the lender.
      When a lender sells the debt to a debt purchasing company any liability the lender had in regards to the debt is completely and totaly diminished.
      Now under English law you cannot sell/assign the burden of a contract. You can only assign the benefits of a contract.
      So the lender can assign the benefits only.
      The question that then arises is that once a lender sells the debt why is a debtor unable to sue the original creditor for inaccuracies within the agreement. If only the benefits of the contract have and can be assigned/sold then surely the burden of ensuring the agreement was drawn up correctly must still stand with the original creditor.

      This is not the case. Once the lender has sold the debt the lender has also passed on the burden of the contract.

      I did say that under Engish law you cannot assign the burden of a contract. I'm pretty sure your barristers will mention this to you awell.

      So how has the lender passed the burden of the contract on. Well in regards to the rule that the burden of a contract cannot be assingned there are two exceptions. One of which applies to debt.
      ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
      Originally posted by Curlyben View Post
      So where does this leave us, well about as informed as ever, ie no where.
      Doesn't the first post outline the legal reasons to enable a debtor to sell the debt?

      Sounds all legallyfied to me you see.
      Last edited by Yoda; 22nd December 2009, 11:48:AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Debt Purchasing- could an expert have a look?

        Now termination of the contract relieves both parties of any obligation to perform under the terms of the contract. Any clauses within the contract are no longer applicable. Yes the debtor then has a post contractual liability/obligation to repay the debt but nothing more and he is free to contract with whomever he so wishes.
        not sure I agree with this see s71 of CCA.

        71.—(1) Notwithstanding the cancellation of a regulated consumer credit
        agreement, other than a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement for restricted-use credit,
        the agreement shall continue in force so far as it relates to repayment of credit and
        payment of interest
        .
        When it comes to the wider area of Contract Law, I freely admit, I suck..

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Debt Purchasing- could an expert have a look?

          Originally posted by Curlyben View Post
          not sure I agree with this see s71 of CCA.



          When it comes to the wider area of Contract Law, I freely admit, I suck..
          As I read that it says what the guy above says, the debtor is liable for the repayment, but only that.

          the agreement shall continue in force so far as it relates to repayment of credit and payment of interest

          So, maybe the other contractual terms are then nullified by the termination?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Debt Purchasing- could an expert have a look?

            What other contractual terms do you mean ?
            If you are referring to selling the debt on, this isn't covered in CCA anyway, but I believe that the debtors liability doesn't cease to exist even under termination of the contract.

            Now as the debtor is a singular person, as detailed in said contract then they are still responsible for the repayments etc as shown in s71.

            Comment

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