1st Credit F&F offer.... seems no cca available

[likewhatie]

Hi Everyone,

I have a debt owing to JD Williams (approx £900) and had been paying the DCA 1st Credit as they now 'own/collect' the debt. I CCA'ed them and didnt get a satisfactory response. After negotiations they accepted a F&F of £450 just to get it out of the way (& thinking there would be a cca on file) and in the letter to them I stated that I still hadnt received a copy of my credit agreement and I expect to do so.

Anyways, I got this letter yesterday from them. Now it seems there is no credit agreement and if I had known this I wouldnt have offered so much
Do you think there is any way I could get them to accept less... say £200 or should I pay what I stupidly agreed before I knew they didnt have a CA.
Any ideas on the wording of my next letter would be fab. They say I have until 11th Aug to accept the offer of £450.

Many thanks,

K :tinysmile_twink_t2:

[TUTTSI]

Re: 1st Credit F&F offer.... seems no cca available

Personally, as they do not have the signed credit agreement and that they have admitted that, I would not be paying anything.

Do they have a deed of assignment for this debt?
In otherwords are they entitled to receive this money?

But lets see what others think as well.

[Curlyben]

Re: 1st Credit F&F offer.... seems no cca available

that was my thinking as well.
No agreement = No payment..

Without the correct paperwork they CANNOT take any further enforcement action.
They will whine and moan and make threats, but they are totally burgered.

[Tools]

Re: 1st Credit F&F offer.... seems no cca available

Legally, 1st Credit are not entitled to enforce the debt as no CCA has been supplied. However, you may struggle to have the detrimental info removed from your credit file no matter how unjustified it is. This route can be either simple or difficult, in my experience JD Williams are fairly straight forward and I would recommend doing it yourself with the help of Beagles or any other free forum rather than using a CMC who would rip you off.

Morally, you have accepted goods and should therefore pay for them.

IMO It all depends on if you actually can pay to service the debt, how much has been added in interest, charges and collection fees.

If you can reasonably afford to pay the value of the goods then do so, but I would be inclined to pay the original creditor, JD Williams directly and not fund 1st Credit or any of the DCA's.

If you are struggling financially and you could use the funds to service another enforceable debt, or if the OC/DCA has seriously harassed you for repayment then inform them you are no longer in a position to offer £450 as f&f and make a much lower offer if any at all.

At the end of the day, the decision is yours and what you feel comfortable with.

[Tools]

Re: 1st Credit F&F offer.... seems no cca available

Apologies Curly, I type slower than you lol.

[likewhatie]

Re: 1st Credit F&F offer.... seems no cca available

Thanks for your input.

[quote]Do they have a deed of assignment for this debt?
In otherwords are they entitled to receive this money?[/quote]

Tuttsi, I have no idea if they have a deed of assignment. Should I send them a letter asking if do?

Any ideas on how I should word the letter to them? I want them to think I know what I'm talking about (even though i dont lol)

Ideally I dont want them :beagle: 'hounding' me in the future for the debt if I dont pay, so if I could get them to accept a small counter-offer on the understanding that they'll update my credit file as settled. But I'd be surprised if they'd do this considering I'm 'taking back' my original offer. (my 1st offer was £400 they said £500 I went back with £450 & then they sent that letter).

[Tools]

Re: 1st Credit F&F offer.... seems no cca available

They also said

If you are still in a position to settle the account for the amount of £450..........."

You may not be in that position any more

[likewhatie]

Re: 1st Credit F&F offer.... seems no cca available

They also said


You may not be in that position any more

Thanks for that :tinysmile_twink_t2:


Referring to Tools reply, (thanks btw), I completely agree with you, they are goods that I ordered therefore I should pay for them.

I have 2 other creditors, b-card & cahoot, and I'm in the same position with them, CCA'ed them and no copy supplied so far, cahoot (which is with moorcroft have said until they get a copy they wont chase payment), b-card sent t&c leaflet and numerous letters saying thats all I'm getting like it or lump it kinda tone, I still make my monthly payment of £30 to them as I'm afraid to stop incase they torture me. I have also sent a SAR to cahoot, they havent satisfied that request yet, and I think they are probably out of time, must check though.

I've had years of trying to sort out the mess I got myself into when I was younger when I completely buried my head in the sand, if I dont open the letters I didnt receive them mindset :crazy: But now I just want to get things sorted and trying to save as hard as I cant to pay them something and get them off my back and out of my head as soon as possible. If I was in a position to pay them all in full, I would, unfortunately I'm not and the best scenario is to offer them low F&F offers and hope they accept.

(oops sorry for the long waffle there)

[Tools]

Re: 1st Credit F&F offer.... seems no cca available

Sounds like your mindset is now back on the mend lol.

Are these the only debts you have, including mortgage/rent, utilities etc? Not prying or being nosey, just that it is better to get a fuller picture now as it determines the best advice for you as to what situation you are in.

Are you in a position to come up with a lump sum without having to borrow or putting yourself into a worse position?

[likewhatie]

Re: 1st Credit F&F offer.... seems no cca available

Sounds like your mindset is now back on the mend lol.

Finally yes it is! Nearly 29 and not on the property ladder I thought I'd be aswell sorting it out!

In 2005/06 I decided to face all the unopened letters, had no choice really as I moved out of my own house (rented) and back to the folks (& they dont do debt) so knew I couldnt have DCA letter & calls to their house as they would kill me, literally!
Anyways, I contacted my creditors with an I&E account and made them all pro-rata offers. The small ones have all been paid now. But three biggest were,

JD Williams (£1500) (with 1st credit) Bal now approx £850-900
B-card (£1900) (went to Robinson Way... now back with b-card) Bal approx £800
Cahoot (£5,000) (with moorcroft) Bal now approx £1,800

Over the years I upped the monthly payments to what I could afford.
I now pay JD £25 every 2 weeks, B-card £30 p/m & Cahoot £70 p/m.

CCA'ed them all and none have come back with a copy. I SAR'ed Cahoot, but they only sent me a statement of account, have sent them another letter asking for the missing information! Those buggers charged nearly £1500 on PPI! not gonna bother going down the route to claim that back as I wouldnt have a clue and would die if I had to go to court etc.

Are these the only debts you have, including mortgage/rent, utilities etc?

I pay rent of £50 p/w to my mum. Plus I get my own groceries, travel to & from work etc. Other direct debits are council leisure centre m/ship, pension, life ins.

Are you in a position to come up with a lump sum without having to borrow or putting yourself into a worse position?

Months ago when I got a bit depressed/aniexty attacks thinking i'd never own my own house with my wonderful fella (who didnt know about my debt, but does now and I got myself into such a mess thinking about how he'd react, and he was great, 'is that all' he said, sure we'll eventually get a place together in a few years dont worry!) or get out of debt etc I thought well if I can get all the debt cleared and at least start saving for a deposit who knows in a few years I might. I made a promise that I would save until it killed me to get it cleared as sometimes its like there is no light at the end of the tunnel and I know my situation could be worse but it freaks me out.
I dont have thousands in my bank account, far from it, but been saving like mad and hope to clear one debt at a time, preferably with a F&F offer. I dont want to go down the route of court and fighting not to pay anything as it wasnt enforceable etc. I just want to clear them so I can clear my head, by debt free for the first time since I was 18! 18 year olds & credit cards/loans.... shouldnt mix!!

Thanks so much for your help! x

[likewhatie]

Re: 1st Credit F&F offer.... seems no cca available

Do you think this letter would be ok to send? Feel free to tell me its complete cr*p lol

Cheeko Weeko

1 Debtfree Gardens
OneDay
IO U

7 August 2009

1st Credit Limited
The Omnibus Building
Lesbourne Road
Reigate
SURREY
RH2 7JP

Ref: *******
Dear Sir/Madam

Client: JD Williams
Relating to Acc No: *********

I refer to your letter of ** August 2009 in which you state that a copy of my credit agreement with JD Williams is not available.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

Also, since you are a Debt Collection Agency, I would also ask that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

For the sake of clarity, may I also draw your attention to the following:
Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.175
Where under this Act a person is deemed to receive a notice or payment as agent of the creditor or owner under the regulated agreement, he shall be deemed to be under a contractual duty to the creditor or owner to transmit the notice, or remit the payment, to him forthwith.

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

If you have no deed of assignment then surely JD Williams are the people that I should be corresponding with.

I look forward to hearing from you regarding the above.

Kind regards



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

CheekoWeeko

[Curlyben]

You have already asked for a copy of the agrement, so there's no reason to do it again.
Try something along these lines..

ccount In Dispute
Letter Before Action

Dear Sir/Madam,
I refer to my recent correspondence with your company concerning this alleged debt, copies of which are enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.
As **DCA** have failed to comply with my Consumer Credit Act request and admitted that the alleged signed executed agreement is unavailable, enforcement action is impossible under section 127 (3) of the Act.

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, Your company commit an offence. These time limits expired on XXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXX respectively.

As you are no doubt aware subsection (6) states:

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;


Therefore as at XXXXXXXX this account became unenforceable at law and it is now my intention to refer this matter to the enforcement authorities.

If **DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

It is also my belief that your continued pursuance of this matter also constitutes an
offence under Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

Failure to respond favourably to this letter within fourteen (14) days of receipt will result in immediate litigation being commenced against your company without further notice.
I also require a copy of your internal complaints procedure as further action may be necessary.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours Faithfully

well worth having a read through this as well: ~~~ Consumer Credit Agreements - A Guide ~~~~ inc. Letters - Legal Beagles

[likewhatie]

Re: 1st Credit F&F offer.... seems no cca available

Many thanks!! Will get that off recorded delivery tomorrow!!

Had a quick read of that link Curlyben, looks great! Will have a proper read later!

[TUTTSI]

Re: 1st Credit F&F offer.... seems no cca available

Also, If you have had any credit card or bank charges we could help you claim these back. Although you seem to have made good inrodes into clearing your debts, I do wish my son did the same being the same age as you he also still burries his head in the sand and does not open his post.

[Tools]

Re: 1st Credit F&F offer.... seems no cca available

It certainly does sound like you are getting on top of things thanks to an arse kicking from the folks (or the threat of one).

If Barclaycard and Cahoot do not come back with a valid CCA then you either have the choice to go down the unenforceable route or you could calculate the charges and interest added to those accounts, deduct that from the outstanding balance and then make them a F&F offer based on the remainder.

Your PPI, if you have a genuine concern that it was mis-sold then I very much doubt that you would ever see a courtroom and it should easily be reclaimable with a few letters and a little legwork.

Whichever you decide you will get help from everyone here at Legal Beagles.

As for reclaiming bank charges I do get the feeling you have no priority debts as such and that you would not be accepted under the hardship conditions, so I am afraid you would have to just wait in the queue like the rest of us.