Pastdue Credit Solutions - for debt I do not owe

[trover]

What you've stated in your initial post is that, your mum owes no money,
the debt is not her's, now you go about proving it.

You've identified loads of anomalies in the information you have received.
So you need to make your case in your complaint using those points.

Reading through the points, there is quite a bit of evidence in your favour,
add copy of your latest tenancy agreement i.e. September 2022.

The following template will help you structure you complaint -

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/te.../edit/?button=

Thank you. I am going to divide the complaint into three aspects: 1. false debt accusation; 2. mishandling of personal data; 3. false remarks on credit file

which I believe 1 may be escalated to the CCW and the OFWAT; 2 to the ICO; and 3 to the FOS

The problem is, am I prevented from escalating different relevant aspects of a complaint to each relevant ombudsman/organisation?

Should I mention any legislations (i.e. DPA2018 for spreading her personal data to 3rd party and opening account without consent; CRA2015 for forcing her into a contract/unfair contract terms)?

Should I specify any amount of compensation I am after?

[echat11]

Thank you. I am going to divide the complaint into three aspects: 1. false debt accusation; 2. mishandling of personal data; 3. false remarks on credit file

which I believe 1 may be escalated to the CCW and the OFWAT; 2 to the ICO; and 3 to the FOS

The problem is, am I prevented from escalating different relevant aspects of a complaint to each relevant ombudsman/organisation?

Should I mention any legislations (i.e. DPA2018 for spreading her personal data to 3rd party and opening account without consent; CRA2015 for forcing her into a contract/unfair contract terms)?

Should I specify any amount of compensation I am after?

a) The problem is, am I prevented from escalating different relevant aspects of a complaint to each relevant ombudsman/organisation?

The CCW (Dispute Resolution Ombudsman (DRO)) and OFWAT (won't investigate your complaint) need the full story.

The ICO will only deal with mishandling of personal data, but you need to provide them with how all that came about.

b)Should I mention any legislations (i.e. DPA2018 for spreading her personal data to 3rd party and opening account without consent; CRA2015 for forcing her into a contract/unfair contract terms)?

No need to, they are aware of them

c) Should I specify any amount of compensation I am after?

They will ask you, there may be a complaint form to be filled in.

[trover]

a) The problem is, am I prevented from escalating different relevant aspects of a complaint to each relevant ombudsman/organisation?

The CCW (Dispute Resolution Ombudsman (DRO)) and OFWAT (won't investigate your complaint) need the full story.

The ICO will only deal with mishandling of personal data, but you need to provide them with how all that came about.

b)Should I mention any legislations (i.e. DPA2018 for spreading her personal data to 3rd party and opening account without consent; CRA2015 for forcing her into a contract/unfair contract terms)?

No need to, they are aware of them

c) Should I specify any amount of compensation I am after?

They will ask you, there may be a complaint form to be filled in.

Got it, I will post back when I receive a response from United Utilities. Thanks again.

[trover]

echat11 Finally received a response from United Utilities.

Here are a few points they made:

1 The account was opened under their “void process”, data was pulled from credit reference agencies, the Land Registry, and so on. The Ofwat is aware of this practice and agree this is being done.

2 They denied that they have breached the Water Industry Act 1991 and the DPA2018 in regard to personal data handling.

3 They said water bills are similar to council tax bills that they are a statutory charge, they quoted s.144 of the Water Industry Act 1991; however, they believed the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the CRA2015 does not apply, and no contract was required for us to sign.

4 They allocated a very small paragraph in regard to registration of default without notice; they just said they believed we were still living at that address.

5 They required me to prove that I did not live there since July 2022, in the form of council tax bills, tenancy agreement not accepted.

Overall, they have been very defensive. But how true are 1-3?

In regard to 5, I understand it may be easier to just send them my council tax bills, however, is it not the onus of proof is on them to show that I owe them money (i.e. we lived there)? As a matter of principle, and how they handled the matter, I am not inclined to do so and am eager to take the complaint further.

Another reason is that we moved out earlier than the tenancy agreement ended, and the property was furnished, which means I paid council tax until the end of the tenancy agreement without any discounts. The council also did not know on which day we moved out. Therefore, providing council tax bills helps little to prove anything.

Thanks!

[echat11]

1 The account was opened under their “void process”, data was pulled from credit reference agencies, the Land Registry, and so on. The Ofwat is aware of this practice and agree this is being done.

Just because OFWAT are aware of the practice, doesn't help you, if you're at the wrong end of their 'mish-mash' erroneous account.

2 They denied that they have breached the Water Industry Act 1991 and the DPA2018 in regard to personal data handling.

You wouldn't expect them to say anything else.

3 They said water bills are similar to council tax bills that they are a statutory charge, they quoted s.144 of the Water Industry Act 1991; however, they believed the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the CRA2015 does not apply, and no contract was required for us to sign.

They are incorrect, water bill is a non priority debt, a council tax is a priority debt. The CCA 1974 and CRA 2015 don't apply.

4 They allocated a very small paragraph in regard to registration of default without notice; they just said they believed we were still living at that address.

Isn't the whole point of 'Defaults', that you are informed of the issue and are given notice so that you can rectify the Default. Did they send letters to the address to find out? What did they do to find out?

5 They required me to prove that I did not live there since July 2022, in the form of council tax bills, tenancy agreement not accepted.

Is there information on your credit file? I can't see why your Tenancy Agreement can't be used.

It's 'bizarre', they can make up accounts which are based on why they believe to be correct, but you can't use a 'tenancy agreement' based on fact which is a legal document.

But how true are 1-3?

As above.

In regard to 5, I understand it may be easier to just send them my council tax bills, however, is it not the onus of proof is on them to show that I owe them money (i.e. we lived there)?

As above.

[PallasAthena]

1 The account was opened under their “void process”, data was pulled from credit reference agencies, the Land Registry, and so on. The Ofwat is aware of this practice and agree this is being done.

Just because OFWAT are aware of the practice, doesn't help you, if you're at the wrong end of their 'mish-mash' erroneous account.

And to add, it is true that OFWAT are aware of, and approve in principle, the general processes utility companies use to track down who should be paying the bills in premises unoccupied or with an occupier who hasn't identified themselves ('voids') but that isn't the same as OFWAT agreeing with what UU have done in your case.

UU are trying to imply that charging you as they have done has OFWAT's approval but that isn't true. OFWAT has no idea what UU have done in your case nor any opinion on whether UU were justified or not.

[trover]

echat11
They are incorrect, water bill is a non priority debt, a council tax is a priority debt. The CCA 1974 and CRA 2015 don't apply.

So are they legal to open an account under my mom’s name under the Water Industry Act 1991? The Act seems to give them a lot of power.

Isn't the whole point of 'Defaults', that you are informed of the issue and are given notice so that you can rectify the Default. Did they send letters to the address to find out? What did they do to find out?

Relying on the information the provided in the SAR, I find the system logs (which has typo which I do not know why):

06/07/2023 SYSTEM PREPARES TO ISSUE A DEFAULT NOTICE LETTER TO THE CUSTOMER
14/07/2023 DEFAULT REQUEST SENT TO CREDIT REFERENCE AGENCY
14/07/2023 DEFAULT NOTICE LETTER SENT LETTING THE CUSTOMER KNOW WE WILL SOON BE SHARING A DEFAULT ON THEIR CREDIT FILE IF THE BALANCE IS NOT PAID OR PAYMENT PLAN SET IMMEDIATELY
18/07/2023 CREDIT REFERENCE AGENCY HAS RECEIVED THE DEFAULT INORMATION

I also find a “Notice of our Intention to Register a Default” dated 14 July 2023 which they alleged to have sent to the address in question.

The data from Orbit shows that they (Orbit) visited twice, on 28 May 2024 and 29 May 2024, and left a card.

Other than that, I find no record that they tried to find out who was living there. What is the requirement for a default notice to be sent, to the last known address, or to the current address?

Is there information on your credit file?

Credit Karma shows default date 14 August 2022, since then the account has default every month up to now. This account was opened on 1 September 2022.

Another account was found, opened on 1 April 2024, no default, but a few missed payment and a few “OK”.

PallasAthena
I must have mis-comprehended it then. They do have a clever use of language and gave me the impression that Ofwat approved their behaviour. The fact that every paragraphs in their response have different font, size, and layout gives a good hint that they are copied and pasted from various pre-written resources by their legal team.

[trover]

I have forgotten to mention, the data to open the account in September 2022 was gathered from Experian, as part of the “void bureau property visit return.”

[echat11]

'So are they legal to open an account under my mom's name under the Water Industry Act 1991? The Act seems to give them a lot of power.'

Yes, but when they make 'errors', they are still right, doesn't sound right.

The ICO has a chat facility on their website, give them the facts in your mums case. See what they have to say.

Maybe write out what you want to say, then copy / paste, into the chat box.

[trover]

'So are they legal to open an account under my mom's name under the Water Industry Act 1991? The Act seems to give them a lot of power.'

Yes, but when they make 'errors', they are still right, doesn't sound right.

The ICO has a chat facility on their website, give them the facts in your mums case. See what they have to say.

Maybe write out what you want to say, then copy / paste, into the chat box.

I chatted with them, their response was only in general:

We can't say if they are complying or not over live chat. It appears they have looked into the issue and responded with an appropriate response but they haven't explained why the account was opened after your mum moved out. I would say to go back to them with any outstanding concerns and see if you can resolve it. If you remain unhappy after that bring a complaint to us.

When we get a complaint our role is to see if it indicates that there has been an infringement of the UK GDPR. If we think the organisation has not complied with its obligations we can give the organisation advice and ask it to solve the problem. To make a complaint to the ICO please complete the form here: https://ico.org.uk/make-a-complaint/...on-complaints/

If they have used your mother's data in a way she wasn't expecting then it most likely would fall under the UK GDPR principle of fair and transparent that falls under Article 5 of GDPR

[echat11]

I chatted with them, their response was only in general:

When you lived there, you were the one paying the water bills. So I think their last line sums up their breach -

'If they have used your mother's data in a way she wasn't expecting then it most likely would fall under the UK GDPR principle of fair and transparent that falls under Article 5 of GDPR'

[trover]

Hi everyone, I have an update. I would like to thank all of you for the advice given, I wouldn’t have achieved this staged success without you all.

United Utilities has removed the charges, closed my mum’s account, removed the account from CRA, removed defaults from the credit file, and offered £150 in compensation for the false default.

However, my mum and I are not happy with the level of compensation; the data shared to DCA remains; and they did not admit that they breached the DPA 2018 and the CCA 1974.

I would like to take this matter further.

Here is the breach I believe they have committed:

CCA 1974: 1. Default without notice; 2. Default against a debt falsely claimed

DPA 2018: 1. Delay in complying SAR; 2. Principles 1, 2, and 6 (GDPR Art. 5); 3. Obtain, retain and distribute data without lawful grounds (GDPR Art. 6); 4. Without informing data subject (GDPR Art. 14)

For CCA breach, I am planning to escalate to the FOS.

For DPA breach, I do not expect the ICO to do anything apart from reminding UU, so I am planning to pursue a court claim under s. 168 of the DPA 2018. How much of compensation should I expect, for distress and inconvenience only?

I am also planning to escalate the whole case to the CCW for them to review.

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated. Thank you all again.

[echat11]

Hi everyone, I have an update. I would like to thank all of you for the advice given, I wouldn’t have achieved this staged success without you all.

United Utilities has removed the charges, closed my mum’s account, removed the account from CRA, removed defaults from the credit file, and offered £150 in compensation for the false default.

However, my mum and I are not happy with the level of compensation; the data shared to DCA remains; and they did not admit that they breached the DPA 2018 and the CCA 1974.

I would like to take this matter further.

Here is the breach I believe they have committed:

CCA 1974: 1. Default without notice; 2. Default against a debt falsely claimed

DPA 2018: 1. Delay in complying SAR; 2. Principles 1, 2, and 6 (GDPR Art. 5); 3. Obtain, retain and distribute data without lawful grounds (GDPR Art. 6); 4. Without informing data subject (GDPR Art. 14)

For CCA breach, I am planning to escalate to the FOS.

For DPA breach, I do not expect the ICO to do anything apart from reminding UU, so I am planning to pursue a court claim under s. 168 of the DPA 2018. How much of compensation should I expect, for distress and inconvenience only?

I am also planning to escalate the whole case to the CCW for them to review.

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated. Thank you all again.

Well done, good result.

What you need to do is make formal complaint to United Utilities regards their Data Protection failures, if once you receive a Final Response / Deadlock letter, if you still aren't happy, then you can take your complaints to the ICO. They will look into you complaint and contact United Utilities to see what has transpired. As for the amount of compensation, the ICO might be able to help with that

CCA 1974 doesn't apply, so complaining to the FOS about that will be a waste of time.

[trover]

Well done, good result.

What you need to do is make formal complaint to United Utilities regards their Data Protection failures, if once you receive a Final Response / Deadlock letter, if you still aren't happy, then you can take your complaints to the ICO. They will look into you complaint and contact United Utilities to see what has transpired. As for the amount of compensation, the ICO might be able to help with that

CCA 1974 doesn't apply, so complaining to the FOS about that will be a waste of time.

Thanks for responding so swiftly.

I have responded back to them asking for their final viewpoint; my initial complaint qualifies for the ICO’s complaint procedures, so I can escalate once UU responds.

I thought utilities companies are also bind by s. 88 of the CCA 1974 if they are to register defaults. Could you please elaborate more on this? I'm keen to learn more about it.

Thank you.

[echat11]

Thanks for responding so swiftly.

I have responded back to them asking for their final viewpoint; my initial complaint qualifies for the ICO’s complaint procedures, so I can escalate once UU responds.

I thought utilities companies are also bind by s. 88 of the CCA 1974 if they are to register defaults. Could you please elaborate more on this? I'm keen to learn more about it.

Thank you.

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 covers various types of borrowing i.e. credit cards, store cards, loans etc.
Section 88 is part of the CCA 1974 so is only going to apply to the agreements covered by the act i.e. credit cards, store cards, loans etc

A utility contract is a 'simple contract', it can be agreed over the phone, post or in person.

In your mum's case there wasn't a 'simple contract' as nothing had been agreed by your mum. They just set up an account and added a balance to it, because there was a debt outstanding on the account after missed payments, they applied a Default on the account. It will state in the Terms and Conditions what they would do if a payment is missed.

So your complaint is limited to the ICO.