Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

[gforce2k]

Re: Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

Thanks did all the above mentioned.
letters posted and I faxed in an amended defence but received a letter from link today saying they received our defence (the one with NEXT mistakenly named as the claimant) offering a Tomlin Order of £100 for the whole amount.
was enclosed with a 2 photocopies of the mbna application form A4 size but still hardly legible in parts.

Is this because they are worried thay may lose?

Also, I faxed an amended defence yesterday but don't think all the pages got through.
Can I still file an amended defence or has the opportunity gone now?

Have to go out for an hour but will scan in everything when I get back.
Any thoughts appreciated.
Regards,

gf2k

[Garlok]

Re: Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

I would advise the UTMOST caution with a Tomlin order. In fact I would suggest that you have nothing at all to do with it.

They acn stitch you up completely for a very long time. If they will accept a hundred quid as it would appear they might, then do it as a watertight full and final settlement. It is then over and done with.

It was professional advice in the very first conversation I had with a specialist consumer credit lawyer that I should have nothing to do with debt management plans, Tomlin orders, claims management companies, IVAs and the like. My own researches bear this advice out as correct.

regards
Garlok.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

You will have to make an application to the Court, in order to amend your defence: N244 Form

[gforce2k]

Re: Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

Sorry I didn't post this earlier, waylaid by family stuff.

Here are the 5 main pages of the letter received today.
1&2 - covering letter
3&4 - copy of Application form (2 separate sheets - FYI our bank account and OH's mother's maiden name blacked over in pen)
5 - 1st page of Tomlin Order (FYI They typo'd my OH's name under the signature box)







Seems funny that they have only sent a copy of the application and not the notice of assignment/default. perhaps they realise their mistake with the dates?

I am rejigging the amended defence slightly and faxing a letter tomorrow morning to the court unless or does this have to be by N244?
Will anyone be around in the morning to cast their eye over the amended defence letter/N244 before faxing? say mid-morningish?

thanks.
gf2k

[gforce2k]

Re: Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

there are similarities to Harrison v Link/Mbna I think which I can use to defend but I'm having a problem deciding how much detail to go into in the defence. Link is the claimant not MBNA but MBNA are mentioned in the POCs and in the TO.
The main discrepencies are on the MBNA side though.

Possible Defence points for now or later:
MBNA
1) The DN seems bad - not 14 days (though views welcome)
2 DN's received on the same day (13/06/09) from MBNA both dated 08/06/09 with a remedy date of 25/06/09 - less than the prescribed 14 days.
The only 'proof' of this receipt date are my hand written notes in the top right corner (as posted) - but I do that with all received docs: top right corner - date of letter & rec'd date underneath
(btw no DN from Link themselves at any time but as not OC assume no need?)
* Harrison v Link/MBNA mentions 2nd class post defacto for MBNA

2) No Termination Notice received from MBNA although their DNs mention 'on or after the date shown your account will be terminated'

3) No terms were received with the card

4) Harassment - Many many many calls, letters and threats (SAR received by them this week)

5) Agreement bad - legibility? terms not on same page? refs don't match?
After CCA'ing MBNA they sent me a barely legible copy of the original application form which seems to have all the prescribed terms across both pages but across two different pages with different reference numbers at the bottom.
Perhaps they don't have the original - risk worth taking?

LINK
6) NOA seems bad - early? not served properly?
Link sent me an NOA by normal post dated 30/06/09 (received 03/07/09) but stated "MBNA has as of 19 June, 2009 assigned to Link..." which is 6 days before MBNA's DN remedy date of 25/06/09.


Worth mentioning
- I have kept everything even marketing bumf from 2009 when the application was received and always write the date of the letter and received date in the top right corner of each doc so can show this to the court as proof of date of receipt
- I have not admitted any documents received so hopefully that helps me CitizenB with the NOA question?
- CPR31.14 letter sent to link this week (should have got it Wed 23rd recorded delivery)
- SAR sent to MBNA this week (should have got it Wed 23rd recorded delivery)

Defence - level of detail
The Big question for me is what detail to include in the defence - Link is the sole claimant but they have mentioned MBNA as the OC so:
- at this point should I jump in with both feet and specifically mention EVERYTHING i.e. the questionable documents mentioned in the POC, i.e. bad MBNA DNs, early NOA etc., even my timeline in order to rely on them later? (essentially admitting receipt)
OR
- should I 'neither deny or admit' and simply put LINK to proof of all these documents with no specifics mentioned of bad DNs/early NOA/bad agreement etc. with the aim of bringing up the document discrepancies later when Link discloses them - hopefully catching Link out?

Stuck
I worry that a judge will see the latter as wasting time by not admitting receipt/being completely open from the start then 'pulling a rabbit out of a hat', but am also worried that mentioning them in the defence is admitting receipt and makes Link's case stronger?

Any ideas as to best option to take? Really finding it hard to decide what's best overall.:|

Cheers,

gf2k

[mystery1]

Re: Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

If you have written the date on the default notice then you know when you received it. It should have at least 14 days from then. It doesn't matter how it was sent if you know when you got it. However having said that, had it been sent 1st class and you couldn't say when then it'd be in time but out if 2nd.


Facts are facts. Admit what you need to as if found out it will affect the weight attached to your evidence and you will suffer from that and potentially costs wise. I wouldn't volounteer info that harms you but certainly admit anything that is true that the say.

If it's relevant put it in IMO as it's harder to get in something you need that you only realise later that it's needed and you may suffer costs. Try to understand why you might need it though.

M1

[Angry Cat]

Re: Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

MBNA, have always sent their DN's by Contract Mail; 3rd class post.
Now, that is a fact.

[chrissiej]

Re: Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

I would advise the UTMOST caution with a Tomlin order. In fact I would suggest that you have nothing at all to do with it.

They acn stitch you up completely for a very long time. If they will accept a hundred quid as it would appear they might, then do it as a watertight full and final settlement. It is then over and done with.

It was professional advice in the very first conversation I had with a specialist consumer credit lawyer that I should have nothing to do with debt management plans, Tomlin orders, claims management companies, IVAs and the like. My own researches bear this advice out as correct.

regards
Garlok.

Apologies if I have missed the point, but I am confused by the above - should we not be trying to arrange informal (or formal) debt management plans with our creditors under any circumstances? Or am I misunderstanding something - I have got most of my creditors to agree to suspend interest and charges and accept reduced payments - is that not an informal debt management plan ....... ??

[mystery1]

Re: Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

MBNA, have always sent their DN's by Contract Mail; 3rd class post.
Now, that is a fact.

Try turning up in court with your default notice and arguing but it's second class and Mr Bickford-Smith says thats 4 working days when you have an actual date handwritten by yourself with the date you received on it.

Don't drop the soap.

M1

[Angry Cat]

Re: Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

Try turning up in court with your default notice and arguing but it's second class and Mr Bickford-Smith says thats 4 working days when you have an actual date handwritten by yourself with the date you received on it.

Don't drop the soap.

M1

The soap is on a string!

I keep the envelopes, as did others including:
http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup...method=boolean

Since, when did MBNA begin to send out their DN's by first class post?

DN's, are computer generated; never seen an MBNA DN that was sent by 1st class post.

Please, show me one and I will eat my hat (recent DN's exempt):beagle:

[Ihaterbs]

Re: Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

Even though terms and conditions were not sent at the time as the app/agreement, the document they are relying on seems to be enforceable.

[pt2537]

Re: Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

id say its improperly executed

id say per HHJ Platts in HFO v Patel on Appeal, that the Claimant must plead for an enforcement order

Id say if it doesnt plead then it cant have, per Judge Platts

[mystery1]

Re: Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

The soap is on a string!

I keep the envelopes, as did others including:
http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup...method=boolean

Since, when did MBNA begin to send out their DN's by first class post?

DN's, are computer generated; never seen an MBNA DN that was sent by 1st class post.

Please, show me one and I will eat my hat (recent DN's exempt):beagle:

In the case on this thread the default notice had the date received written on it. In this case it doesn't matter how/when it was sent as it is known when it was served. (wasn't this also a factor in Brandon ?, certainly one recent case)

M1

[Ihaterbs]

Re: Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

Judgment

Para 18 deals with service of documents. May be useful.

[gforce2k]

Re: Link MBNA Claim Urgent Help needed please!

Hi M1, slightly confused, are you saying I should try or are you being sarcastic? 'don't drop the soap' is a prison reference isn't it?
I think I'd understand if my handwritten note went against me i.e. 1 day less than the 4 day 2nd class delivery not the 1 more that it is.

It seems supportable that the DN is bad as either way you look at it can be argued that it left less than 14 days to remedy. Surely my handwritten note isn't even necessary to argue this as 2nd class is deemed 4 days so it in fact further supports the argument? or am I missing something?:

Actual delivery
The DNs were both dated 08/06 arrived 5 days later on 13/06 (handwritten note) leaving 12 days to the remedy date 25/06.

Assuming 2nd class (4 days) as per Bickford-Smith
Even if my hand written notes are contested it seems accepted that MBNA send out DNs 2nd class which is legally seen as 4 days making the date of receipt 12/06, leaving 13 days to remedy.

On top of this the Link NOA states assigned 19/06/09 so 6-7 days after I received the DNs.

AngryCat you seem to think I am correct, do you think I should mention the received DN and handwritten note or put them to proof?