Need some Urgent Help Re bt default and secondary account entries

[caledonia2]

Hi all,

I need your help I find myself in a weird situation where I recently checked my credit file to find that BT had registered two bits of information all relating to the same account number with Equifax but the weird bit is they Show confliction one entry shows an account with a different 4 digits ending and the other shows another account with a different four digit ending both relating to the exact same debt hope I haven't confused yous yet.

I recently contacted bt and they told me this was as a result of a bill incurred when I left bt for bt vision bt broadband and phone. When I discussed this with bt I disputed the legitimacy of the sale of bt vision to me at the time as I asked them if I needed to have freeview to be able to watch pause and record live tv they said at the time of sale no but to my shock and horror I did need it but we could not get freeview at the time so I felt I should not be held responsible for this contract as bt had miss sold me a product I would not have other wise bought after all why by something you cannot use? Bt said they did not accept this and when I told them at the time they had refused to take this back they stated they could not find any proof of this and that there evidence at best was sketchy I told them this was having an adverse affect on my mental health and causing a great deal of distress to me due to this issue and quoted them chapter and verse of Scottish contract law and miss representation which may lead to a consumer entering in to a contract they would not other wise do so and the consequences and what Scots law said from the stair memorial encyclopedia and after some debate they agreed to write of this debt but failed to agree to remove two account entries from my debt stating it had nothing to do with miss selling and was instead on grounds of my mental health.

When I first contacted bt I gave them the account number for the account which had been defaulted and they told me they could not find such an account and when I gave them the account number for the one which showed as settled they told me this was in fact the correct account they then stated that the account had been passed on to the debt collection agency and that as far as they where concerned was settled but that bt had registered a default on the 17/03/2010 but despite the fact that there own customer service agent states say for example account 1234 was the correct account the only default I can find is registered on a different account number say 4321. Now bt have refused to remove the two account what I would like to know is did bt breach the data protection act by Giving this debt two separate conflicting entries under two separate account numbers when in fact it relates to one account in this case say 1234 and by there own admission they where unable to find any such account ending 4321 is this a breach of the DPA? The reason I ask is there are two separate accounts with conflicting information on my credit file pulling down my credit rating and it seems like to me bt deliberately is attempting to miss lead people by giving these accounts two separate account numbers when in fact they all relate to the same account which according to their agent is supposed to be account 1234. I feel like they may have broken the rules possibly even the law but legally where do I stand can i insist this is sorted in to one account number instead of two or that this is removed as it is in violation of the DPA or what?

I must say I find it highly suspicious as to why they would give it two separate account numbers for the same debt and also strange why they would have the two separate account numbers show conflicting evidence can someone help me here please I am confused as to how to approach this one and why bt feels the need to give the one debt two different account numbers?

Robert

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Need some Urgent Help Re bt default and secondary account entries

If you have proof that there is a duplicate default and BT have refused to co-operate you should contact the CRAs where the duplicate default show enclosing any correspondence between yourself and BT in the first instance. A further step would be to complain to the ICO should they refuse to do anything about it.

[caledonia2]

Re: Need some Urgent Help Re bt default and secondary account entries

It's not a duplicate default it's conflicting information they have two accounts say 1234 and 4321 the problem is they registered a default on account 4321 when for the same debt as account 1234 I contacted bt giving account 4321 and they said it was not valid so I gave them account 1234 which was valid both relate to the same debt but account 1234 says the debt was satisfied as bt had sold the debt to a debt collection agency back before 2010 I think it was near the end of 2009 they did this but in 2010 they registered a default against my credit file and at the same time put conflicting information for the actual account number saying satisfied no default both accounts relate to the same debt but conflict with each other and to top it off have different account numbers but one account says satisfied no default the other says defaulted but the defaulted account number according to customer services is not valid yet bt say both account entries are correct and refuse to remove them and the credit reference agency won't remove them at all saying the creditor is right I am wrong even though the credit reference entries conflict with each other.

[labman]

Re: Need some Urgent Help Re bt default and secondary account entries

I would have thought you should complain to the Data Controller at BT who has a responsibility for processing your information accurately. I'd personally email the CEO, as the underlings tend to be pretty useless with anything like this, and see if you can get it resolved that way:

ian.livingston@bt.com

[caledonia2]

Re: Need some Urgent Help Re bt default and secondary account entries

Well one of the customer resolution team got back to me yesterday it was the same guy that agreed to write off the debt I pointed to him that there where two separate accounts for the same debt one of which their customer service team admitted was not a valid account number and that the information on both accounts conflicts he asked me to give him a couple of days so that he can look in to that he can look in to the issue for me and come back with a reply if I do not get a satisfactory resolution from him or equifax I will write to both the data controller and also the MD as well as make a full and formal complaint to the ICO at the same time and see what they come back with see if it makes them sweat lol! If there is one thing you can say it is if they do not resolve this issue and Equifax does not resolve it either as they are coming up to a month since I made the complaint to them on the 27th then I will turn up the heat dig my heals in and prepare for all out war to get the thing resolved once and for all. I may even look at the law course books I have access to online through the OU and see if I can find ammunition to use against them.

I am just wandering if it would be worth doing a sar to see all the communications they had in the past and present with the credit refrence agencies regarding these so called accounts as I noted to day on the defaulted account they have shown a whole year of late payments before defaulting the account which I am sure ICO says they should not do but it would be worth seeing when the original default was registered as I know equifax had taken the debt off my account a while back according to them whilst they waited on bt resolving concerns they had about accuracy of data it would be worth while seeing if they registered the default on the same date or if they have bumped the default date forward a bit to keep the debt active? Wander if you are entitled to see what information they have previously shared with credit reference agencies also would be worth seeing if I can find the original transcript of the call made when entering in to the contract as when I entered in to the original contract they added bt vision telling me it would allow me to watch pause and record live tv when I asked if I needed freeview they said no just plug it in to the net and away you go but it turned out we needed freeview to get this service so they technically lied to me to get me to enter in to a contract for bt vision if I could find a copy of that I could use the miss selling as leverage to get them to remove both entries it would also be worth seeing when they sold the debt on as if this was after the default date then technically I could have the defaulted entry removed as once bt sells on the debt they dont have the right to register a default as the contract is no longer with them what do yous think do you think its worth a try?

[caledonia2]

Re: Need some Urgent Help Re bt default and secondary account entries

Hey guys update heard back from bts monkey department I say monkey department as they clearly have the intelligence of a monkey there latest is that this double entry relates to two seperate accounts which have the same amount of debt I find this hard to believe as customer services said they could find no such account relating to 4321 but found one relating to 1234 and both accounts relate to the same amount owing with the same level of debt and same start date I am just wandering if I should complain to the head monkey ie CEO or ico what do you's think and does any one no head monkeys email address?

[labman]

Re: Need some Urgent Help Re bt default and secondary account entries

See post 4! :beagle:I always go straight to them, as Customer Relations are useless.

[caledonia2]

Re: Need some Urgent Help Re bt default and secondary account entries

See post 4! :beagle:I always go straight to them, as Customer Relations are useless.

I would agree with you there they are just idiots. I also have found out that they have applied several queries through 2009 with the late payments from December 2008 through to about april 09 with the rest being queried even though I did not query it in 2009 but there was 14 late payments registered on the account before default so I have gone one better to ask them on the satisfied account what date the account ran from to when last payment was made and also what did it incorporate and how much was owed to see if they come back with the same as the other account as I can use this as ammunition against them. I will be sending an email to the ceo in the morning and it will include everything even the miss selling of bt vision to me on the guise I did not need freeview when I asked them if I needed it to watch pause and record live tv on bt vision as if I did I would not take it as it is of no use to me along with showing him a copy of the two conflicting account entries and the same start date as well as proof of my mental health problems to see what he does.

It will be interesting to see what they do then or come up with then but I will also be sending them full sar request requesting everything including the kitchen sink lol!

Robert

[caledonia2]

Re: Need some Urgent Help Re bt default and secondary account entries

Update for yous after the dis service from the mokeys I have sent the BT ceo proof of the two account entries and explained the circumstances two him including the fact that bt had miss sold bt vision to me back in 2008 and that if I wanted I could legally take bt to court over this but have decided not to in the hope that he will agree to remove the defaulted account entry that was registered against my credit file for account 4321 which I pointed out to him is not my valid account number and that account 1234 according to their customer services dept is the only account number I have with bt I also pointed out to him that when asked to provide details for both accounts through equifax they both relate to the same debt and are for the same amount with the same start date but conflicting information I also pointed out to him that it is against ico rules to register conflicting information on a credit file for the same debt and Pointed to him that bt did not register a default which ico states should be done within 6 months of last reciving a payment but did this 14 months afterwards which I stated I found suspicious and that his hired goons did not use that word of course to him but thats what they are tried to tell me these two accounts where valid and correct even though they both relate to the same debt and that they tried to tell me that the accounts related to two different periods when I was a bt customer in spite of the fact i only ever was with bt once and had one account number and both accounts have the same start date and I provided him with proof of this so he cannot deny it I then asked him for the sake of bts reputation to consider removing these defaults I also told him what affect this had on my mental health and provided him with proof and stated if he does not remove it I will make a complain to ICO and will persue legal action if necessary stating that i hoped he would see since when looking at the information provided and this letter and instruct the goons below him to remove the defaulted entry so I guess we shall see what he says the letter is 2200 and odd pages as I gave him a lesson on miss selling products and breaking scottish contract law as well as breaching DPA sent it off a few minutes ago so it should be in his inbox in time for the morning. One things for sure if he starts spouting the same rubish as the goons below then I will never go back to bt again and in fact I shall complain to ico and even if necessary get my lawyer on the case but there is no way they are getting away with this one.

[caledonia2]

Re: Need some Urgent Help Re bt default and secondary account entries

Hey all

Update Finally got the full bt account numbers but also got some useful info from mr corney in the letter the defaulted account which if you have read past posts is 4321 Was active from 13/05/2009 to 19/06/09 which I find amusing as bt have told equifax account 4321 was active from 2008 and defaulted 14 months afterwards which means it would have defaulted before the account even started but further to this they confirm 1234 is my account and it has a debt still owing for it but this was the debt I disputed but what amuses me is they written of the debt for 4681 stating I owed them it but due to financial difficulties they would write it off yet I told them this was not my account but they are still refusing to remove the default they registered against my credit file for this account even though I know I was only a bt customer until 2008 with the account officially being passed to debt collection in january 09 I never was with bt in on the 13/05/2009 to the 19/06/2009 as in fact I was with another provider by then and tied in to a years contract further to this bt do not usually give you another account unless you pay of your existing debt with bt first so I find it amazing they claim that the entry on my credit file for account 4321 is valid when in fact there own letter states it is impossible as the account would have been defaulted before it was even a valid account. Bt really are taking the biscuit with this one. I must admit I have had a good laugh at them for this one as it really is taking the biscuit defaulting an account before it even became an account that has to be a new one on me.

What do you all think I should do I did send an email to the ceo but the bt chief executive team have hijacked it and I am still waiting on one of them getting back to me on this.

Robert

[labman]

Re: Need some Urgent Help Re bt default and secondary account entries

It is VERY unusual for the CEO's team not to respond very quickly. The lack of punctuation in your posts can make them hard to understand - if you sent a lengthy email, they may be struggling to grasp exactly what you are complaining about. I'm not criticising your education, please don't get me wrong. I'm just stating a fact from my experiences reading the above posts.

[caledonia2]

Re: Need some Urgent Help Re bt default and secondary account entries

Hey labman

Well I take no offence the dyslexia is the problem with punctuation I had a very good education. The reply I got from peter corney of the dispute resolution service was laughable despite the fact bt have entered a default for this account 4321 on february 2009 and they state the start date may 2009 is correct they still insist the default entry registered on my credit file is valid even though it says the account started around may 2008. Now it does not take a genius to work out that an account cannot default before it has even supposedly been opened does it. If you listen to what bt says time must be the other way round with the later date being before the earlier date I am sure einstien would be able to explain how but I cant.

Despite providing him with proof of bts entry on my credit file and the start date he gave mr corney still insist both are accurate and legal.

I have decided to contact ICO show them the proof of what bt claim and find out if they think given the account did not start till later in 2009 when in fact I was a talk talk customer if they think it breaches the DPA and Ico guidelines I hope if they say yes and i provide bt with proof of what ICO says then they will agree to remove it if the ceo team hasn't before that. I find it hard to understand how they can defult and account before it starts and how they could say I had an account for them at a time when in fact I was a talk talk customer this is laughable what do yous think of this new development?

On things for sure bt are a few brain cells short of a working brain lets hope ceo team has some.

Robert

[caledonia2]

Re: Need some Urgent Help Re bt default and secondary account entries

Hey all I have heard from bt Karen Fennel complaint review services but have missed her call so I sent her an email asking her to make all contact by emails but if she must phone I have set up an 070 number which I have given her which will put her through to me but all calls will be recorded and may be shared with Government agencies such as OFT, Department for trading Standards and Information Commissioner as well as to Ofcom for purposes of backing up complaints or for seeking advice on my rights. I also let them Know I may provide information to selected third parties such as CAB and other agencies or people for the purposes of proving what was said by whom and also seeking advice on my legal rights. I made it clear I would also share recordings with my solicitor for the purposes of legal advice and also taking legal action if necessary as well as to my carer to back up what I have said and what BT have said. I made it clear to her that calls will be charged at 50p a minute pending on her network provider and calls from other providers and mobiles will be considerably more and that information will be deleted when I am satisfied this compalint has been dealt with to my satisfaction.


After raising a complaint and providing proof to equifax of the accounts actual start date I got a reply from Equifax that they heard back from bt and the data controller maintains the information is accurate and that they are unable as custodians to change this. I replied back stating that whilst I recognize that the ICO says Equifax may have defence against legal action I pointed out that ICO cannot gaurantee this and that recent cases has stated anyone who shares information weather or not provided by a third party or not for others to see is deemed as a publisher and that under uk law as a publisher they have a duty to make sure the information is accurate and that as they provide this information to other creditors in exchange for a subscription fee I consider them to be a publisher and therefore there claim they are only custodians as without foundation.


I also went on to ask them if they could read as if they could they would see that the information provided contradicts the information they sent me in a letter which clearly states the start date of the account was supposedly 2009 not 2008 therefore the entry on my credit file is in breach of ICO rules. I rather cheekly provided them with a copy of the ICO guidelines and made it clear to them they should look at certain ones which state the information provided should be clear and the information should relate to the time the account was in operation I also pointed them to the fact that they should register a default within 6 months not 14 months of the last payment being recieved and reminded them bt policy was that they would not give a person a second account whilst they still owed bt and therefore it would have been imposible for me to get a second account as I still owed bt and also was in fact at that time a customer of talktalk. I provided them with a copy of ICO guidelines and told them that should they be having problems reading the letter or ico guidance to phone me and I would read it to them.


After my rather cheeky response to them reminding them of ico rules and pointing them back to bt's letter I seem to have got somewhere I also reminded them they had stopped bt previously registering information in the past due to concerns about the quality of information. Equifax has now said that they are greatful to me for this information and will now contact bt to re exmaine their records again in light of the new evidence before they just kept saying contact bt so hopefully equifax will see since and remove the account 4321 as it does not take a genius to work out if an account supposedly started in 2009 by bt's own admission then it cannot possibly have started in 2008 with a late payment registered in december 2008 therefore hopefully they will finally agree to remove it but I did make it clear I would directly sue bt as well as equifax for breaching the data protection act if they do not agree to remove it and will not consider their claim to be valid that they are only a custodian of the records as they are benefiting monetarily from the publishing of this information and as a result will persue them as well.


Anyway apologise for spelling mistakes and lack of punctuation and grammar but this is where we are at so far.

Robert

[caledonia2]

Re: Need some Urgent Help Re bt default and secondary account entries

Well guys victory has been served.

You ready for the news? Drum role please. After talking to bt customer review service as you know they phoned me up well Lee has contacted me this morning and to milk the suspense ha ha ha he said that he was communicating with equifax and the data controller at bt as well as looking at the other issues I raised. Well his reply did not mention miss selling however in an email to me this morning after I missed his call he said that he was sorry for the confusion caused and that it was clear there was confusion over the amounts owing reported on both accounts and that this confusion was as a result of bt's reporting on the account statuses as well as confusion to the start date among other things. As a result of the proof I provided him he could see that the start dates on the accounts did not match with what bt had told equifax nor did the amount owing on each account.

As a result of this he felt it would take a very long time to sort out and would need to be cleared up and that as this could take sometime he has decided that it would be in neither mine or bt's interest for to carry out a lengthy investigation as to try and get to the bottom of the confusion. As a result of the fact it would be in neither mine or bt's intereast to drag out a lengthy investigation to get to the bottom of the confusion he has agreed to "remove all the charges in relation to the accounts in question and that no further follow up of any historic balance will occur" and further to this he stated he would contact the credit refrence agency and ask them to remove all infrormation relating to these accounts.

In other words what he is saying I think what he is saying but in a round about way is we will write off the debts owing and remove the account entries on your credit file as we have not complied with the data protection act and you where write to question us on that although he does not say that I think that is what he is trying to say.

I note they dodge the miss selling bit but hey if they are going to write off the debts and remove the accounts from my credit file as far as I am concerned it is win win. I must say though why customer services could not see what I was trying to tell them and why corney could not see it when I showed him proof of this but Lee from the Complaint review service could see that the information being reported was confusing and in breach of DPA and subsequently agreed to remove it I do not know.

As for the data controller well he will be eating his own words when he is ordered to remove the two accounts from my credit file completely just after trying to tell me they where right and I was wrong even when I showed him proof to back this up he will have to eat a large does of humble pie as will equifax who had previously refused to remove the defaulted entery and the other account on the grounds they did not have the power to and I was wrong although I will hand it to them after quoting them chapter and verse of ICO guidance and providing them with the ICO guidance book and reffering them to the specific paragraphs with the threat of legal action they did get back in touch with bt and after complaint review service gets in touch with them in realtion to the accounts they will have no other option barring to remove it and all before I get to see what ICO had to say about it though they will probably email me anyway to confirm what ICO thinks anyway.

With a smile on my face I can say thanks to you guys and a 4 page letter from me along with a copy of ico guidance for bt and equifax it is a victory maybe a small one but hey a victory non the less and I have even asked bt to write a letter stating they have agreed to write of the debt and remove the account entries from my credit file and have wrote to equifax to confirm this and by remove I mean deleted and they have agreed to provide the letter so if something ever did happen I can confirm that the debt no longer exist and bt agreed to remove their default.

So thats another defaulted entry of my credit file with equifax now if I could just get t mobile to remove theirs I would have a lovely spring cleaned credit file in a years time. Anyway that was a nice little belated birthday present bt delivered me in my inbox this morning and hey I started my complaint at the age of 27 and got it resolved at the age of 28 lol just too bad they had not delivered it to me on the 17th which would have been my birthday but hey its the though that counts lol.

So Folks thanks for your help on this one.

Sorry once again for spelling lack of punctuation and grammar errors.


Robert

[labman]

Re: Need some Urgent Help Re bt default and secondary account entries

Excellent - well done you, and well done for your determination. Another small victory for you, adds to the hundreds of others on this site which make it a force to be reckoned with!