Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE :(

**Kati** · 27th August 2016, 09:12:AM

Re: Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE

tagging [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] xx

**joekillen92** · 27th August 2016, 09:14:AM

Re: Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE

Thank you so much Kati

**jcs995** · 31st August 2016, 09:12:AM

Re: Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE

Hi Joe,

Would be interested to know the outcome of this as I have in process of VT with Ford and will have to go through this process....

Has this been dealt with yet?

cheers James

**R0b** · 31st August 2016, 09:17:AM

Re: Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE

Hi Joe,

Sorry I've not picked this up, you are in a similar position to someone else and suggest you read the thread below. But in short, they can't charge you excess mileage.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...highlight=ford

**joekillen92** · 31st August 2016, 17:22:PM

Re: Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE

Originally posted by R0b View Post

Hi Joe,

Sorry I've not picked this up, you are in a similar position to someone else and suggest you read the thread below. But in short, they can't charge you excess mileage.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...highlight=ford

Rob,

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, I have used that thread in order to formulate a response to ford, please see below. (any feedback would be welcomed)

31st August 2016
Carmen Le
Ford Credit Europe
Customer Relations Department
Manchester Business Centre
Dear Carmen/Ford,
Thank you for your letter dated 26th August 2016 regarding excess mileage charges and why yourself and Ford believe that I owe £312.55. For the reasons set out in this letter I strongly believe that I am not in fact liable for the “debt” you are claiming.
Sections 9, 10 & 11 of your letter contain incorrect information with zero legal standing. My rights under voluntary termination (s.99 of the CCA 1974) are that as long as I have paid up to half of the total amount payable and have taken reasonable care of the goods I do not have to pay any more, this does not include exceeding the mileage limit as you have incorrectly stated. In support of s.99 please refer to s.173 of the CCA 1974 which states that any contractual term which is inconsistent with the protection of a debtor's rights is void and unenforceable.
To claim that you are entitled to the amount “owed” under s.100 (4) would mean I have not taken reasonable care of the goods, so far you have provided zero evidence that I have not taken reasonable care of the goods.
The mileage of the car had not caused it to be in an unreasonable condition, to claim that exceeding the mileage limit qualifies as not taking reasonable care of the goods you would need to provide evidence of this through an independent expert's opinion.
As stated in my previous letter the vehicle was well maintained and service at main ford dealerships at the intervals recommended by Ford (every 12,500 miles), there was no damage to the vehicle and the interior was clean, tidy & in good condition. The car was collected and assessed by your own agent who noted the mileage and stated that the car was all round in a good condition, this was recorded on the inspection sheet that we both have copies of and so therefore you cannot claim that the car was in an unreasonable condition upon collection.
From my previous letter and the information above I believe that it is absolutely clear that I have fully conformed with the criteria set out in the CCA 1974 for Voluntary termination, yourself & Ford are now choosing to ignore legislation that is written in clear english. This is my final stance on the matter and you will not be receiving any money that I apparently owe. If you wish to attempt to make me pay the sum you are stating you will need to take me to court where I will fully uphold my stance alongside my solicitor.
Please respond to this letter to confirm that the matter is now closed.
Kind regards,

Joe

- - - Updated - - -

Originally posted by jcs995 View Post

Hi Joe,

Would be interested to know the outcome of this as I have in process of VT with Ford and will have to go through this process....

Has this been dealt with yet?

cheers James

Hi James,

Not sorted yet, just formulated a response to send to ford using the thread Rob very kindly linked above.

Ill be sure to keep everybody in the loop on how this goes down.

**jcs995** · 31st August 2016, 17:28:PM

Re: Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE

Thanks Joe. I am sending my VT to Ford tomorrow - I have gone over my set mileage by just over 11,000. So looking at receiving a nice bill for c.£700 obviously I will contest like you are. It is quite daunting reading the language, though I'm sure with enough backbone and persistence they'll eventually give in as from what I've read the contracts contradict themselves.

**R0b** · 1st September 2016, 08:06:AM

Re: Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE

Morning @joekillen92,

I have re-written your letter almost entirely (hope you don't mind) as I think it needed some extra information and clarification. I have also added an extra section in red which is optional but looking at the letter they may have put a default on your credit report so I would suggest that you check this out immediately and if this is the case, the route you will need to take is small claims action. The cost of it will be £50 if you issue a claim up to £300, and for something like this I think you could be awarded a sum of around £250 if found in your favour. Again, its entirely your choice and there have been a couple of occasions where lenders have put default markers on credit files and the threat of legal action has made them remove it. I am not sure whether Ford would stick to their guns on this one but the evidence to date seems to be heavily in your favour.

---------------------------------------------------

31st August 2016
Carmen Le
Ford Credit Europe
Customer Relations Department
Manchester Business Centre

Dear Carmen/Ford,

Thank you for your letter dated 26th August 2016 regarding excess mileage charges in the sum of £312.55, your comments are noted.

In response and for the reasons set out in this letter, it is my belief that the charges relating to excess mileage are unfounded. I am somewhat confused as to your letter because you have referred to a contractual term within the agreement which says that I am liable for excess mileage yet you seem to be relying on section 100(4) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the "Act") as to the basis for the monies outstanding. Nonetheless, your claim for such sums are groundless and without merit.

As you will be aware, my right to terminate the agreement falls under section 99 of the Act in conjunction with section 100 as regards to my liability. Once I have invoked section 99 to terminate the agreement, my liability under it is limited to 50% of the total amount payable. This is because the definition of 'total price' (see section 189) only includes the total amount payable including the option to purchase price, but expressly prohibits any sums which relates to compensation or damage for a breach of the agreement. If there is a conflict between any contractual term and the Act, then for the purposes of terminating under section 99, the contractual term is deemed to be void and unenforceable. I would like to further add that within the agreement, it also stipulates that provided one half of the total amount payable is paid, in this case £X,XXX.XX, and provided that I have taken reasonable care of the car, then I will not pay any more. This seems to conflict with your excess mileage clause and it is the courts view that where a clause is ambiguous or unclear, they will apply the contra proferentum rule (that the clause is construed against the party who drafted it).

In relation to your allegations that the car was not returned in an unreasonable condition and you are entitled to damages under section 100(4) of the Act, this is denied in its entirety. To date, you have not provided me with any evidence that the excess mileage has directly impacted on the reasonable condition of the car. Furthermore, the car was well maintained and serviced at a Ford garage in accordance with the servicing guidelines (every 12,500 miles), there was no damage both internally or externally and this was verified by the fact that the condition report recorded the car as being in a 'good' condition. Given the evidence, I therefore cannot see how you are now able to claim the car was not in a reasonable condition. I would also like to draw your attention to a Court of Appeal case, Brady v St Margaret's Trust 1963 which concerned a car on hire purchase. Lord Denning commented about the requirement of the car being kept in a reasonable condition:

"There should be evidence by the hire-purchase company to show the condition of the goods at the time the agreement was made and to show how far the hirer has defaulted under it. As I read this clause, the hirer's duty is to keep the car in the condition in which it might reasonably be expected to be if he had looked after it properly. He need not put it in a better condition than it was when he hired it. He need only keep it in the condition in which a reasonably minded hirer would keep it."

It therefore follows that in order to reclaim the monies allegedly owed, you are required to provide proof of such damage which occurred whilst the car was within my possession. There was no initial inspection or report when I initially received the car and considering the lack of evidence, I would find it difficult for you to prove that you are entitled to compensation under section 100(4).

I would also like to point out that I consider your actions misleading and in breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, in that you have falsely stated the legal position in an attempt to recover monies which are not owed. You have also suggested that I should pay Link Financial Outsourcing Ltd by 22 September 2016 as the agreement has been assigned, yet I have received no notice assignment from your or Link Financial confirming that it has been legally assigned.

[Finally, I also note there is suggestion that a default may have been applied on my credit report as a result of the alleged debt. I shall be reviewing my credit report in due course and if it turns out that this is the case, I will be sending a letter before action for the removal of it and compensation as this is a breach of data protection. If you fail to remove the default, then this will result in the commencement of proceedings against Ford.]

In light of the above, I can confirm that my position remains unchanged as regards to the excess mileage. I trust that this matter is now settled and I ask for confirmation by return that the account is now closed.

**joekillen92** · 1st September 2016, 16:23:PM

Re: Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE

Originally posted by R0b View Post

Morning @joekillen92,

I have re-written your letter almost entirely (hope you don't mind) as I think it needed some extra information and clarification. I have also added an extra section in red which is optional but looking at the letter they may have put a default on your credit report so I would suggest that you check this out immediately and if this is the case, the route you will need to take is small claims action. The cost of it will be £50 if you issue a claim up to £300, and for something like this I think you could be awarded a sum of around £250 if found in your favour. Again, its entirely your choice and there have been a couple of occasions where lenders have put default markers on credit files and the threat of legal action has made them remove it. I am not sure whether Ford would stick to their guns on this one but the evidence to date seems to be heavily in your favour.

---------------------------------------------------

31st August 2016
Carmen Le
Ford Credit Europe
Customer Relations Department
Manchester Business Centre

Dear Carmen/Ford,

Thank you for your letter dated 26th August 2016 regarding excess mileage charges in the sum of £312.55, your comments are noted.

In response and for the reasons set out in this letter, it is my belief that the charges relating to excess mileage are unfounded. I am somewhat confused as to your letter because you have referred to a contractual term within the agreement which says that I am liable for excess mileage yet you seem to be relying on section 100(4) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the "Act") as to the basis for the monies outstanding. Nonetheless, your claim for such sums are groundless and without merit.

As you will be aware, my right to terminate the agreement falls under section 99 of the Act in conjunction with section 100 as regards to my liability. Once I have invoked section 99 to terminate the agreement, my liability under it is limited to 50% of the total amount payable. This is because the definition of 'total price' (see section 189) only includes the total amount payable including the option to purchase price, but expressly prohibits any sums which relates to compensation or damage for a breach of the agreement. If there is a conflict between any contractual term and the Act, then for the purposes of terminating under section 99, the contractual term is deemed to be void and unenforceable. I would like to further add that within the agreement, it also stipulates that provided one half of the total amount payable is paid, in this case £X,XXX.XX, and provided that I have taken reasonable care of the car, then I will not pay any more. This seems to conflict with your excess mileage clause and it is the courts view that where a clause is ambiguous or unclear, they will apply the contra proferentum rule (that the clause is construed against the party who drafted it).

In relation to your allegations that the car was not returned in an unreasonable condition and you are entitled to damages under section 100(4) of the Act, this is denied in its entirety. To date, you have not provided me with any evidence that the excess mileage has directly impacted on the reasonable condition of the car. Furthermore, the car was well maintained and serviced at a Ford garage in accordance with the servicing guidelines (every 12,500 miles), there was no damage both internally or externally and this was verified by the fact that the condition report recorded the car as being in a 'good' condition. Given the evidence, I therefore cannot see how you are now able to claim the car was not in a reasonable condition. I would also like to draw your attention to a Court of Appeal case, Brady v St Margaret's Trust 1963 which concerned a car on hire purchase. Lord Denning commented about the requirement of the car being kept in a reasonable condition:

"There should be evidence by the hire-purchase company to show the condition of the goods at the time the agreement was made and to show how far the hirer has defaulted under it. As I read this clause, the hirer's duty is to keep the car in the condition in which it might reasonably be expected to be if he had looked after it properly. He need not put it in a better condition than it was when he hired it. He need only keep it in the condition in which a reasonably minded hirer would keep it."

It therefore follows that in order to reclaim the monies allegedly owed, you are required to provide proof of such damage which occurred whilst the car was within my possession. There was no initial inspection or report when I initially received the car and considering the lack of evidence, I would find it difficult for you to prove that you are entitled to compensation under section 100(4).

I would also like to point out that I consider your actions misleading and in breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, in that you have falsely stated the legal position in an attempt to recover monies which are not owed. You have also suggested that I should pay Link Financial Outsourcing Ltd by 22 September 2016 as the agreement has been assigned, yet I have received no notice assignment from your or Link Financial confirming that it has been legally assigned.

[Finally, I also note there is suggestion that a default may have been applied on my credit report as a result of the alleged debt. I shall be reviewing my credit report in due course and if it turns out that this is the case, I will be sending a letter before action for the removal of it and compensation as this is a breach of data protection. If you fail to remove the default, then this will result in the commencement of proceedings against Ford.]

In light of the above, I can confirm that my position remains unchanged as regards to the excess mileage. I trust that this matter is now settled and I ask for confirmation by return that the account is now closed.

Wow Rob I am speechless. I cannot express how thankful I am. Just popped the letter in the post hopefully they leave me alone now!

Is there any way I can send you a gift/Paypal donation?

On your point about a deafult on the account Rob I have checked and it just states that it is settled, would you say I have nothing to worry about now? (I still included your message regarding a default and my potential for action) please see attachments for screenshots of my credit report.

I will of course keep this thread updated in order to help others avoid this trouble.

Thanks again [MENTION=23709]rob[/MENTION]

Attached Files

**R0b** · 1st September 2016, 16:54:PM

Re: Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE

Hi Joe,

No need on the personal donation, I provide my assistance for free

As for your credit report, it seems like you are fine for now but I would keep an eye on this as it could turn out that Link Financial may apply a default or Ford may do it at a later stage.

**jcs995** · 7th September 2016, 12:14:PM

Re: Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE

Hi Joe,

Wondering whether you have had any more on this? I submitted my VT last week, still waiting for Ford to contact me. Collcted my new vehicle yesterday - love it.

Regards,

James

**cathysl** · 15th September 2016, 08:43:AM

Re: Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE

Hi would also like an update as have had exactly the same issue and just been told ombudsman has gone in favour of ford as they say the contract was signed with the mileage allowance and excess mileage charge clear . I have 2 weeks to respond if not happy .

**joekillen92** · 17th November 2016, 17:55:PM

Re: Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE

[MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION]Hi Rob I have only just received a response to the letter you drafted for me. Ford are still insisting I pay, they have abandoned their claims of the mileage not being "reasonable care" and now they are stating that the mileage was accrued before I VT'd so I'm liable to pay. Should I respond to them or ignore them? I believe I have already set out my stall and don't want to waste any more time with them.

They've told me to go to the ombudsman but from my research the ombudsman seems to side with the car company even though the consumers rights within the CCA are written in plain English.

Kind regards,

Joe.

**joekillen92** · 17th November 2016, 19:51:PM

Re: Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE

@R0b Please find attached my most recent letter from Ford and my planned response.

I am going to fight this all the way dont really care if they take me to court as the wording in the CCA is so clear and written in plain English, plus if it all goes tits up I can afford to pay them & the court fee's (would rather a judge tell me to pay rather than pay them and regret it!).

Would appreciate your input.

Kind regards,

Joe.

**R0b** · 17th November 2016, 21:36:PM

Re: Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE

Unfortunately the Ombudsman appear to be taking a view that because there is a clause in the excess mileage charge then they will go with what it says and until a court case confirms that the liability is capped, then its unlikely they will follow the CCA and go with what is reasonable.

That being said there is another avenue that you could go down if you want to take it to the Ombudsman. Rather than mentioning the CCA you simply rely on the clause "Termination: Your Rights" which simply says as long as you have paid X and any overdue instalments then you will not pay anything more. That is as clear as day, and as long as you have complied with it then you don't owe anything further. Ford can't say that excess mileage is covered by this clause because its not an instalment amount.

I've not suggested going down that route before so it is worth a try. You relied on that termination clause and I'd be very confused if the Ombudsman said that the excess mileage is in addition to it as it doesn't say that, only the overdue instalment amounts.

As for the accrual before termination, how could it accrue before termination if they only became aware of the excess mileage after the car was handed back? In order for something to accrue you have to know the actual amount accrued. So that's a load of cack as well.

Is it possible for you to upload a copy of the Ford agreement if you have it? I'd like to take a read but haven't been able to see the terms and conditions yet. Also you may want to remove your personal info form the letter you uploaded

Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE :(

Voluntary termination of Hire purchase agreement with Ford HELP ME PLEASE :(

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