Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

[Blaz]

Re: Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

Okay so firstly thank you everyone for your advice, for the first time in nearly 5 years i'm going to make contact over this debt rather than ignore it. Naturally I'm really nervous about doing this as I feel its really close to it being SB and since ignoring it has worked so far - asking for a CCA might mess it up for me. So I have a few questions -

1. Does the letter above sound like a notice before action?
2. If i chose to ignore the above letters and the next letter on my doorstep is court papers - cant i just ask for a CCA then?
3. By sending a CCA request does that void the SB no contact rule or admit ownership of the debt
4. Who do i send the CCA too, BW Legal or Lowells? - If i send to BW first wont it delay them even more? Waste as much time as I can.
5. What is a SAR - why will i benefit sending this to Welcome Finance?
6. Found an old Welcome Finance letter from 2009 - its a "Sums in Arrears" letter and states -
   
   "This notice is being given in compliance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 because you are behind with your payments. New rules came into affect in 2008 which requires us to send you this notice" The letter then gives me a breakdown of payments between 2008 - 2009.
   
   So my debt is from 2004 (however ive found another agreement from 2005, cant remember why they got me down to their office again to sign something) this letter is from 2009 - Should I be worried requesting a CCA, does this letter from WF make it more possible that Lowell may have a better chance of finding the original CCA?

Thanks for helping, im going to send the CCA request tomorrow after I get a bit more help with these questions.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

Its a tough call, i've evaded this for nearly 5 years. Im reluctant to reply as in the past ignoring them (or getting my dad to call up and say i dont live there) has been enough to make them go away for a while. So admitting I live somewhere and going down the whole CCA route seems like a big gamble, I've no idea why they havent taken me to court in the past without my knowledge.

So would you all agree the letter above is a letter before action?

It doesn't comply with the pre-action conduct but the vast majority of letters don't, I'd certainly treat it as one.

If I do ignore the letter and the next letter to come is court papers - couldnt I just ask for CCA proof then?

Yes, you could, but prevention is always better than cure. :typing:

"This notice is being given in compliance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 because you are behind with your payments. New rules came into affect in 2008 which requires us to send you this notice" The letter then gives me a breakdown of payments between 2008 - 2009.

So my debt is from 2004 (however ive found another agreement from 2005, cant remember why they got me down to their office again to sign something) this letter is from 2009 - Should I be worried requesting a CCA, does this letter from WF make it more possible that Lowell may have a better chance of finding the original CCA?

Lowell won't find the CCA, they won't have it. They will have to request it from Welcome Finance who may or may not find it.

Also why should I ask Welcome Finance for a SAR? Shouldnt I just send Lowell a CCA request and leave it there?

You can do either or both, a SAR is intended to obtain the full account history, however, most companies only supply data for the past 6 years.

Should I send BWLegal the CCA request? Wont that help to delay things further rather than go straight to Lowells?

They could argue they are not the creditor and they'd be right, Lowell are the creditor. They could still issue court papers, they very often do.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

Okay so firstly thank you everyone for your advice, for the first time in nearly 5 years i'm going to make contact over this debt rather than ignore it. Naturally I'm really nervous about doing this as I feel its really close to it being SB and since ignoring it has worked so far - asking for a CCA might mess it up for me. So I have a few questions -

Does the letter above sound like a notice before action?

It should be taken as one, yes. There is an example response to a letter before action here: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...054#post443054 You will need to adapt it to your case.

If i chose to ignore the above letters and the next letter on my doorstep is court papers - cant i just ask for a CCA then?

You can but why wait?

By sending a CCA request does that void the SB no contact rule or admit ownership of the debt

There is no 'no contact rule' for SBd, as long as there's no payment or written acknowledgment of the debt, it will be SBd after 6 years, even if there is contact between debtor and creditor. :thumb:

Who do i send the CCA too, BW Legal or Lowells? - If i send to BW first wont it delay them even more? Waste as much time as I can.

Lowell. Wasting time won't stop BW Legal from issuing a claim if they so wish.

What is a SAR - why will i benefit sending this to Welcome Finance?

To obtain statements, bearing in mind it will likely be just for the past 6 years. Could be useful to ascertain if the amount claimed is correct, the amount of it that's charges, any insurance premiums applied to the account, etc.

[Blaz]

Re: Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

Thank you so much FlamingParrot!

So just to summarise - send this cca request to Lowells - http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...=7670#post7670

And if i send this (http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...054#post443054 )to BW Legal, this will stop them issuing court papers whilst Lowells look for the CCA?

Both recorded I presume?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

Thank you so much FlamingParrot!

So just to summarise - send this cca request to Lowells - http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...=7670#post7670

You're very welcome. :yo:

Got your PM. :typing:

I'd send the second version down, the 'slightly more in-depth' version, which has a paragraph that says "If it is your view that you are not the creditor..." because Lowell love their dirty tricks and may argue they are not the creditor. This should close that door.

And if i send this (http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...054#post443054 )to BW Legal, this will stop them issuing court papers whilst Lowells look for the CCA?

There is a part of the Civil Procedure Rules (CPR) known as the pre-action conduct which can be found here: http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...action_conduct. It deals with the exchange of information before starting court proceedings and refers to letters of claim (a.k.a. letters before action) and how they should be dealt with. What you have received constitutes such a letter but does not comply with the protocol. What you are doing is pointing that out as well as reminding them of their obligations to supply documents and showing them that you know what you're talking about and you won't just roll over and pay. :thumb:

In many cases, a suitable response to a letter before action has stopped solicitors in their tracks for the above reasons. :grin: :grin: :grin:

You will also notice that the CPR says the defendant is supposed to respond to the letters, you are complying with the protocol despite being a lay person, they are not, despite being a legal firm. :clap2:

Make sure you change any bits that need changing, such as the paragraph that reads: "A request has been made under s.77 on xx/xxxx/2014 and I am awaiting a response." If this is a loan you can leave s.77 in and just type in the date when you are sending the CCA request to Lowell. :typing:

Both recorded I presume?

You presume correctly. :thumb:

Good luck, I'm also off to the Post Office now. :bolt:

[Blaz]

Re: Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

Thank you all so much! I've printed the letters off and i'll be going the post office very soon. so fingers crossed!

I have signed both letters but using a different signature to my usual and a different signature to how i signed the WF agreements. Not sure if that matters.

I noticed on the agreements (i still have them) that there is a £75 acceptance fee, I think I read somewhere that the acceptance fee has got them into trouble? Is this right?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

Thank you all so much! I've printed the letters off and i'll be going the post office very soon. so fingers crossed!

I have signed both letters but using a different signature to my usual and a different signature to how i signed the WF agreements. Not sure if that matters.

I noticed on the agreements (i still have them) that there is a £75 acceptance fee, I think I read somewhere that the acceptance fee has got them into trouble? Is this right?

They won't compare the signatures, in fact, they may not even find the agreements to start with. :grin:

Let's see what they come up with, maybe nothing, your response to their letter before action may well make them change their mind with regards to going to court and they may well move on to easier prey. :thumb:

Do keep us posted. :typing:

As they haven't issued court papers, there's no need to chase either letter, if they don't respond, it should all work in your favour in the event they issued a claim.

[Blaz]

Re: Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

My dad had two missed calls and message from "Advantis" saying to call them URGENTLY .... are they anything to do with Lowells?

[Kati]

Re: Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

My dad had two missed calls and message from "Advantis" saying to call them URGENTLY .... are they anything to do with Lowells?

Advantis is definitely a DCA http://www.advantiscredit.com/Default.aspx - and they have quite a client base too (http://www.ccrmagazine.com/index.php...arch&Itemid=86)

Advantis welcomes Anglian Water to its client base
Advantis add the DVLA to its Public Sector client base
Advantis add Scottish Power to growing client list
United Utilities retain Advantis
Home Retail Group adds Advantis to its DCA panel
Advantis wins major Government contract
HMRC contract winners officially named

I'm not sure if Advantis and Lowells are linked .... but having done a web search I came across this (http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/foru...1#.VCGuqNxZ1ng)

This has been passed to them by Lowell who previously chased me for it & ignored my replies that it is not my debt.

I'd advise against phoning them, and wait for letters :tinysmile_twink_t2:

Kati x

[Blaz]

Re: Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

Thanks Kati!

So its possible that Lowells got my letter, knew they couldnt find my CCA, bricked it and sold it off to someone else ...

Anyone else know anything about Advantis working with Lowells?

[Blaz]

Re: Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

I sent the letter below to BW Legal (Sat 20th Sept) which also had a copy of the CCA request i sent to Lowells included with it. I got a reply today

Dear Sirs,

Ref: xxxxxxxx

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xxxx/2014. As the letter contains a threat of litigation, it is being treated as a formal letter before actionicon. As such, I refer you to paragraph 1 of the Practice Direction Pre-Action Conduct, which states the purpose of such a letter is to “enable the parties to settle the issues between them” and to encourage the parties to “exchange information”.

Paragraph 2.2 (1) of Annex A states you have an obligation to “list the essential documents on which the Claimant intends to rely”. I could not identify such a list in your letter, please list the documents so I can see your case against me and request copies of anything that I may need.

Paragraph 3.2 (3) of Annex A allows me to “request further information to enable me to provide a full response”. My request is a request for documents as the information I require would come from those documents. Paragraph 5.1 of Annex A states that you should “provide the documents requested within as short a period of time as is practicable or explain in writing why the documents will not be provided”.

I require copies of the following:

The original credit agreement;
The Default Notice;
The Termination Notice;
The Notice of Assignment;
Statements of account;

These documents would be expected to be supplied if proceedings were issued and would likely be in your possession if you were issuing a claim. If you consider that there is difficulty in providing a copy of a document, please identify that document and the reason. Additionally, there is a duty to supply documents under the consumer crediticon Act 1974. A request has been made under s.77 on xx/xxxx/2014 and I am awaiting a response.

I shall being able to provide you with a full response to your letter within 14 days of receipt of the documents listed above and also reserve the right to refer to the contents of this letter if proceedings are issued without first providing copy documents to me.

Yours sincerely,"

Their reply -

We confirm we have received your request for documentation under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. We have referred your request to our client. Our Client may have to refer your request to your original creditor. Accordingly, the documentation will be forwarded to you upon receipt.


We will seek to ensure that the information you have requested is provided within 12 days, however that is contingent on receiving the documentation from your original creditor within the aforementioned timescale.

So far so good i think, although no reply from Lowell! When does the "12+2 days" start from? I put the 18th on the letter but didnt send it til the 20th. They received it on the 23rd.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

So its possible that Lowells got my letter, knew they couldnt find my CCA, bricked it and sold it off to someone else ...

No, they wouldn't have done it so quickly. Besides Lowell wouldn't be bothered by not finding the CCA, they routinely issue court claims without ever having had a whiff of the documents.

As far as I know, Advantis are debt collectors who act on behalf of others rather than debt purchasers like Lowell.

Anyone else know anything about Advantis working with Lowells?

Advantis is definitely a DCA http://www.advantiscredit.com/Default.aspx - and they have quite a client base too (http://www.ccrmagazine.com/index.php...arch&Itemid=86)

I'm not sure if Advantis and Lowells are linked ....

I don't think so, they are just debt collectors. They were chasing me for tax credits overpayments on behalf of HMRC, which has nothing to do with Lowell.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

I sent the letter below to BW Legal (Sat 20th Sept) which also had a copy of the CCA request i sent to Lowells included with it. I got a reply today

So far so good i think, although no reply from Lowell! When does the "12+2 days" start from? I put the 18th on the letter but didnt send it til the 20th. They received it on the 23rd.

That's just a standard response saying they'll need to go back to the original creditor for the documents and does not require action on your part.

Don't worry about the dates, you are more likely to receive a visit from an extra-terrestrial than a response to your CCA request from Lowell within 14 days! :lol:

Like all debt purchasers, they wouldn't have the documents and would have to request them from the lender, who may or may not find them. If they don't respond within the timescale, the account becomes unenforceable as long as they are in default :thumb:

The idea is to stop them in their tracks. If you hear from BW Legal or Lowell and you haven't had a response, you just have to write back to them saying they are in default of your request dated xx/xxxx/2014. :grin:

Do post up if you hear anything else, :typing: if you don't, there's no need to remind them.

[Blaz]

Re: Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

So it's been over 14 days and I've not heard anything from Lowells, only the letter I mentioned above from BW Legal - I know its still early days but at least the account is now in default (for now at least). 13 months to go until SB

[Blaz]

Re: Lowell Portfolio chasing old debt

UPDATE - So far so good! 6 months have passed since I sent a CCA request, still no response from Lowell! Is this a normal timescale to wait for a CCA reply? In other words, if they were going to send me proof of CCA would they have sent it by now?