DSAR returned by HBOS ?

[jax50]

Re: DSAR returned by HBOS ?

have decided to write back and complain to HBOS about the missing DSAR info, and ask them if they can give me a reason why they have not sent it. Have emailed copy to hannah bernard again, as an official complaint...it's over 90 days now and they haven't sent any copy letters, dn's, noa's , pt's, t&c's or a legible copy of the application form...never mind an agreement...maybe they've lost them...and maybe they don't have a legible agreement ?

I'm messing them about really...and why not...they have enough cash swilling around to keep their house in order, ifthey can't be bothered todo that...well that's their problem....maybe they'll write back and say they don't have the documents...hmmmm

[CleverClogs]

Re: DSAR returned by HBOS ?

have decided to write back and complain to HBOS about the missing DSAR info, and ask them if they can give me a reason why they have not sent it. Have emailed copy to hannah bernard again, as an official complaint...it's over 90 days now and they haven't sent any copy letters, dn's, noa's , pt's, t&c's or a legible copy of the application form...never mind an agreement...maybe they've lost them...and maybe they don't have a legible agreement ?

Have you also made a request under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974?

A s78 request should produce a copy of the executed document or whatever twaddle they deign to offer as a "reconstituted twue copy" thereof.

A Subject Access Request could, by creditors determined to play at Silly Buggers, be limited only to those documents bearing your personal details.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: DSAR returned by HBOS ?

have decided to write back and complain to HBOS about the missing DSAR info, and ask them if they can give me a reason why they have not sent it. Have emailed copy to hannah bernard again, as an official complaint...it's over 90 days now and they haven't sent any copy letters, dn's, noa's , pt's, t&c's or a legible copy of the application form...never mind an agreement...maybe they've lost them...and maybe they don't have a legible agreement ?

I'm messing them about really...and why not...they have enough cash swilling around to keep their house in order, ifthey can't be bothered todo that...well that's their problem....maybe they'll write back and say they don't have the documents...hmmmm

SAR responses vary, some banks will tell you things such as terms are not part of a SAR because they don't constitute personal information and a SAR is a request for personal data under the DPA 1998. In theory, a SAR should include a copy of your agreement as it would have your personal details, however, you can't argue unenforceability based on non-compliance with a SAR. In my case, I was lucky that MBNA wrote on the covering letter in response to my SAR, that they couldn't find my agreement, which was also confirmed on their response to my CCA request, perhaps that's why I haven't heard from them in 2 years. :grin:

With regards to the DN, many banks will argue they don't keep copies of them, that's why we are supposed to keep our own, only we weren't aware of this fact years ago when we defaulted. I believe you do have your DN and it was defective, wasn't it? Although this would only really make a difference if they took you to court.

From what you say above and from earlier posts, it looks like they haven't got any more/better documents to send you, which is why they can't enforce this. :thumb:

Have you also made a request under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974?

A s78 request should produce a copy of the executed document or whatever twaddle they deign to offer as a "reconstituted twue copy" thereof.

A Subject Access Request could, by creditors determined to play at Silly Buggers, be limited only to those documents bearing your personal details.

I believe jax50 did send a s.78 CCA request quite a long time ago, he may even have sent more than one, and got no response.

[jax50]

Re: DSAR returned by HBOS ?

According to the ICO I should be entitled to copies of what is on my personal file...and I know for a fact there will be a lot of correspondence on there...but they have sent nothing. Neither have they informed me why they have not sent this information... I accept T&C's and PT's might not be sent, but I asked anyway...

As for the CCA request, yes I sent one and two reminders some 8 months ago but they did not respond to me. They were all recorded delivered and I didn't even get my PO back. This issue is on the back burner for later when I've exhausted the DSAR issue.

HBOS said they were passing this to B.O & S, so I am awaiting to hear from them one day. Then I might play the sold while in dispute card and mention the CCA request.

One thing I am unsure of, is the SB issue. What constitutes 'acknowledging the debt'....?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: DSAR returned by HBOS ?

HBOS said they were passing this to B.O & S, so I am awaiting to hear from them one day. Then I might play the sold while in dispute card and mention the CCA request.

Blair Oliver Scott are part of the HBOS Group, they are in-house threat monkeys with a rather pompous name. :tinysmile_cry_t:

One thing I am unsure of, is the SB issue. What constitutes 'acknowledging the debt'....?

Uhmm, very good question! We'd need to know what you've been doing in terms of written correspondence. If you've made any offers of repayment, that would acknowledge the debt. Normally sending a CCA request wouldn't, although there was a bit of a debate on the subject when I started this thread precisely on that subject: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...iod&highlight= :ohwell:

A SAR doesn't acknowledge anything, you are just requesting what data they hold about you.

[jax50]

Re: DSAR returned by HBOS ?

Well, I'm certainly not paying anything ...nor made an offer...This past 8 months has been all about resolving 'issues'...and my gaining some understanding of 'things'.

They must be getting fed up of me now, HBOS have had to bring the account back 'in house' and pay off the DCA , so that's upset them...then they've had to refund a chunk of incorrect charges after the FOS got involved...so that will also have upset them...now they are having to cope with a DSAR which I know is troubling them...of course they are very apologetic, and have paid compensation to me even...but this can ramble on for years...depending on what they do next.

I didn't make the rules, and it isn't me that continually breaks them...as they are realising.

Like I said, one day the letter will hopefully drop through my letter box..."we have decided to take no further action..........."

meanwhile, the SB clock ticks on, and thank you for the info FP...

[CleverClogs]

Re: DSAR returned by HBOS ?

What constitutes 'acknowledging the debt'....?

I believe that reclaiming unfair charges added to it could count as written acknowledgement.

[jax50]

Re: DSAR returned by HBOS ?

yes, you're probably right...that was xmas time though so I probably 'lost' 4 months SB there...although the original reclaim dated back 4 years, so it might be a mute point if it ever comes up.

[jax50]

Re: DSAR returned by HBOS ?

Just an update...HBOS have made another attempt to satisfy the SAR I made, sending another wad of copy statements and a slightly improved copy of the application form, plus some T&Cs and computer print outs...but no letters. I have resubmitted a 'complaint' to the CEO...and asked why they haven't sent me everything and why they haven't explained why they haven't sent everything. Crucially, the more legible application form refers to 'conditions of use overleaf'..but they haven't sent what was overleaf...but have sent a seperate wad of papers described as conditions of use. What does 'overleaf' mean , because what they sent wouldn't fit 'overleaf', only as an attachment...does that matter ?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: DSAR returned by HBOS ?

Just an update...HBOS have made another attempt to satisfy the SAR I made, sending another wad of copy statements and a slightly improved copy of the application form, plus some T&Cs and computer print outs...but no letters. I have resubmitted a 'complaint' to the CEO...and asked why they haven't sent me everything and why they haven't explained why they haven't sent everything. Crucially, the more legible application form refers to 'conditions of use overleaf'..but they haven't sent what was overleaf...but have sent a seperate wad of papers described as conditions of use. What does 'overleaf' mean , because what they sent wouldn't fit 'overleaf', only as an attachment...does that matter ?

This is a SAR, not a CCA request, so, technically, whatever they may send in response to a SAR can't be considered a response to a s.77-79 request which you'd use to obtain a copy of your agreement. Banks often refuse to send terms as part of a SAR because terms do not constitute personal data. I would say it doesn't "matter" simply because they are not responding to a CCA request.

For the sake of argument, let's pretend that was a response to a CCA request. It sounds like they have sent you a bunch of terms, which may or may not apply to the time you opened the account, depending on the dates. Look out for small print on the edges of the documents, something like "BCD_22000.qxd 03/09/08" which I saw on someone's terms posted here. There may not be as much as that, but something like "09/08" would be an indication that these are the terms from 2008, or maybe "07/04 06/05" meaning they are from 2004 to 2005.

RBS sent me a bunch of terms like that, along with a single-sided application form, and it was deemed uneforceable on two separate forums. This was over 3 years ago, haven't heard a peep since Jan 2012. This was a response to my CCA request, not a SAR, so it's all a bit academic. Makes you wonder if they have the documents, why can't they locate them when you send a CCA request, not that it's necessarily a bad thing! :thumb:

[jax50]

Re: DSAR returned by HBOS ?

Thank you FP..Yes, it is a SAR as you say and I guess I am pushing this more than I have to really...but seeing as HBOS are really struggling, and the CEO will be getting more irirtated...I thought I might keep at them. Kinda revenge for what they did to me back in 2006, well it makes me feel better as it is the CEO's secretary who is leading on this now and being ever so sorry. When this is all over, when I decide I've had enough or got what I wanted, there is the little matter of the 8 month old CCA request outstanding.

You make an excellent point about the terms they've sent (or should i say 'Conditions of use')..and fortunately when they sent me my card back in 2003 they affixed it to a sheet of paper, which although it didn't have a title is pretty much the same as what they call Conditions of use. Upon inspection there are discrepancies between the two sets of terms, so what they've sent is not the right one. it doesn't have a ref number as it is just a reprint from a PC on A4 paper, whereas the original did have a ref number. I haven't told them this as all I have said to them is where is the stuff that should be 'overleaf' from the application form they sent me. This is where they are struggling I think as it seems they didn't scan the reverse of the application form.

They are 130 days into a SAR which I could have complained to the ICO about, but I am showing them I am a reasonable man.........

I still wonder about the term 'overleaf', how would you interpret the meaning FP ?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: DSAR returned by HBOS ?

I thought I might keep at them. Kinda revenge for what they did to me back in 2006, well it makes me feel better as it is the CEO's secretary who is leading on this now and being ever so sorry. When this is all over, when I decide I've had enough or got what I wanted, there is the little matter of the 8 month old CCA request outstanding.

Which is still outstanding, as the SAR is a totally separate issue, it's a request for information under the DPA, not under the CCA.

You make an excellent point about the terms they've sent (or should i say 'Conditions of use')..and fortunately when they sent me my card back in 2003 they affixed it to a sheet of paper, which although it didn't have a title is pretty much the same as what they call Conditions of use.

The prescribed terms should have been on the document you signed, not sent later with the card. Cards often came with those "conditions of use", but they are separate from your agreement.

Upon inspection there are discrepancies between the two sets of terms, so what they've sent is not the right one. it doesn't have a ref number as it is just a reprint from a PC on A4 paper, whereas the original did have a ref number. I haven't told them this as all I have said to them is where is the stuff that should be 'overleaf' from the application form they sent me. This is where they are struggling I think as it seems they didn't scan the reverse of the application form.

Looks like neither did RBS…

They are 130 days into a SAR which I could have complained to the ICO about, but I am showing them I am a reasonable man.........

I still wonder about the term 'overleaf', how would you interpret the meaning FP?

Overleaf = on the other side, a.k.a. the reverse, there's no other meaning!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/overleaf

Definition of OVERLEAF: on the other side of a leaf (as of a book) <find the answers overleaf>

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/d...itish/overleaf
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/overleaf

All definitions concur! :thumb:

[jax50]

Re: DSAR returned by HBOS ?

Which is still outstanding, as the SAR is a totally separate issue, it's a request for information under the DPA, not under the CCA.
The prescribed terms should have been on the document you signed, not sent later with the card. Cards often came with those "conditions of use", but they are separate from your agreement.
Looks like neither did RBS…
Overleaf = on the other side, a.k.a. the reverse, there's no other meaning!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/overleaf

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/d...itish/overleaf
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/overleaf

All definitions concur! :thumb:

Thank you again FP.. Do 'Conditions of Use' have a legal standing in the whole scheme of things, can't think I've ever seen them mentioned in any of the cases I've read ? Guess it's more to do with the content perhaps.....

[FlamingParrot]

Re: DSAR returned by HBOS ?

Thank you again FP.. Do 'Conditions of Use' have a legal standing in the whole scheme of things, can't think I've ever seen them mentioned in any of the cases I've read ? Guess it's more to do with the content perhaps.....

I shouldn't think so, those come with the card, they are not part of your credit agreement.

[Smilesallround]

Re: DSAR returned by HBOS ?

Update...


and enclosed is a photocopy of an Application Form from 2002...and a wad of credit card statements ......that's it.
..

Same happened to me but not with SAR request but with CCA request they sent a application form from god knows when and couple of terms and conditions. Funny thing the handwriting wasn't mine and my first name spelt incorrectly with my signature against it. Overleaf was some terms to agreement. Told them its fraudulent and their collectors have told me to put in fraud complaint to HBOS. Why should I they fail to send me what is right. Why would I sign against my incorrect name.