CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

[jax50]

Re: CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

Hi Jon,

If the Brig has taken up astronomy, feel free to say, "You're talking out of Uranus!"

The request must have the T&C's at the time of inception and the T&C's at the time of the request:


Where there has been a variation of the terms and conditions of the agreement

2.27

Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1)of the Act, the OFT considers that, by virtue of Regulation 7 of the Copies of Documents Regulations, the duty is to provide not only a copy of the agreement as originally executed but also either


• a copy of the latest variation given in accordance with section 82(1)of the Act relating to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied, or


• a clear statement of the terms of the agreement as varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act.



Although only a consultation document, it sets things out pretty clearly:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/con...OFT1175con.pdf

Can I just ask for clarification for my muddled brain.......

Where there has been a variation is there a requirement to provide a copy of the original 'agreement' or the original 'terms' ?

...and, did this come from the OFT or was it what Waksman said ? Do the 'Regs' state this to be the case too ?

thank you...

[gravytrain]

Re: CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

Can I just ask for clarification for my muddled brain.......

Where there has been a variation is there a requirement to provide a copy of the original 'agreement' or the original 'terms' ?

...and, did this come from the OFT or was it what Waksman said ? Do the 'Regs' state this to be the case too ?

thank you...

All three.

Waksman confirmed what was stated in the regulations and the OFT reported what was said in Waksman.
The original agreement should embody all the schedule one terms and these should be provided together, in order to comply with the request.
If any of the terms are varied on permission given by a contractual term, a copy of the most resent version of the terms and conditions must be sent along with the ones in place on execution of the agreement.

[mystery1]

Re: CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

The original agreement should embody all the schedule one terms and these should be provided together, in order to comply with the request.

Only if they were present in the original.

M1

[gravytrain]

Re: CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

Only if they were present in the original.

M1

Yes the information sent should reflect the information available on execution.

[jax50]

Re: CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

Okay, thanks...
So....what exactly should they send...the original T&C's brochure, or a copy of the original actual signed agreement...or both ?

The 'agreement' I thought covered all the documents that it comprised, so while you might get some dubious stuff from a CCA request, are they saying when there is a variation you should receive copies of the elusive originals ?

[labman]

Re: CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

Yes the information sent should reflect the information available on execution.

WHAT????????? The Consumer Credit Act allows for execution? I assume that's only if you miss payments! msl:msl:msl:msl:

[jon1965]

Re: CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

They should send
A copy of the agreement as originally signed containing all the prescribed terms (can be a recon)
Terms and conditions at that time
Terms and conditions that are currently valid
A signed statement of account (that can just be a statement or balance with a signature)

[jax50]

Re: CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

They should send
A copy of the agreement as originally signed containing all the prescribed terms (can be a recon)

Where does it say that ?

Terms and conditions at that time
Terms and conditions that are currently valid
A signed statement of account (that can just be a statement or balance with a signature)

......

[labman]

Re: CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

You may find this helpful:

http://www.stephensons.co.uk/site/ne...reements_carey

[jax50]

Re: CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

I think I may have diverted the thrust of this, see my post #16... It isn't about s78 per se, it is about what Waksman said in relation to variations to agreements...as per post #2 by labman

Where there has been a variation of the terms and conditions of the agreement

2.27

Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1)of the Act, the OFT considers that, by virtue of Regulation 7 of the Copies of Documents Regulations, the duty is to provide not only a copy of the agreement as originally executed but also either


• a copy of the latest variation given in accordance with section 82(1)of the Act relating to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied, or


• a clear statement of the terms of the agreement as varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act.


And a post from basa

Waksman was discussing the reconstituted agreements sufficient for S78, but followed up with his phrase:
(4)If an agreement has been varied by the creditor under a unilateral power of variation, the creditor must still provide a copy of the original agreement, as well as the varied terms;

Clearly (IMO) distinguishing the 'reconstituted' agreement from the 'original' agreement.

It think it has been established that the interpretation is that the creditor must produce a copy (i.e. photocopy) of the original agreement showing the signature

So, this is not a reconstituted copy, but an actual copy or literal copy ?

[jon1965]

Re: CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

Oh I am lost now , bloody Yorkshire men I hate them (there is a joke in there somewhere)

I am not quite sure what you want to know
Is it what is needed for S78 or what is needed for enforcement?

[gravytrain]

Re: CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

All copies required under the act refer to "true copies" as defined by regulations made under section 180 of the act, there is no differentiation, nowhere does it say actual copy . If you look up "copy" in definitions (189) it directs you to section 180.

[labman]

Re: CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

All copies required under the act refer to "true copies" as defined by regulations made under section 180 of the act, there is no differentiation, nowhere does it say actual copy . If you look up "copy" in definitions (189) it directs you to section 180.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/180

[jax50]

Re: CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

Oh I am lost now , bloody Yorkshire men I hate them (there is a joke in there somewhere)

I am not quite sure what you want to know
Is it what is needed for S78 or what is needed for enforcement?

Okay...well first there is is s78 CCA stuff, which they can reconstitute



then there is what is needed at court for s61 or whatever, which has to be from the original

but also...when the OC varies the terms of your agreement, as they are entitled to do, they are supposed to write to let you know, and include a copy of the original agreement plus the changes/new agreement. Okay so far ?

Now Waksman referred to this and said they should send the original agreement to you when the vary the terms.

So, my question was....what in this case is meant by the original agreement ?

[labman]

Re: CCA request...what EXACTLY should be received

but also...when the OC varies the terms of your agreement, as they are entitled to do, they are supposed to write to let you know, and include a copy of the original agreement plus the changes/new agreement. Okay so far ?

I'm not sure they're meant to send you the agreement are they? Surely just the new T&C's are OK.