Peter,
A very useful post, although I disagree with some of your points
Originally posted by peterbard
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Contracts, Termination, Repudiation and Rescission
[snip]
Worked example:
A window cleaner contracts to do your windows at a fee that you pay in arrears of service of service.
This kind of an arrangement would not usually be documented but just humour me and lets say an agreement was drawn up.
The contract would say I the window cleaner will, etc etc for the weekly fee of £*** .
So far so good but what happens if the customer fails to pay .
This is a simple contract and common law would say that the breach by the customer was a repudiation of agreement and the window cleaner would be within his rights to accept that repudiation, terminate the contract and claim damages of the sum owed.
[I disagree, unless the agreement states that prompt payment is a condition of the contract (As for example most HP contracts do, but most credit cards do not) non payment of money is not repudiatory, it is a simple breach of contract which gives rise to a claim for damages - the contract endures]
Say now that the window cleaner had negotiated a contract with a housing association to clean all their windows, on a house by house costing and on the strength of this contract had invested in building his business to the degree where he could fulfil his obligations under the contract.
Since it would be some time until he could recoup his investment he would want to ensure the continued custom of the housing association so he includes a time element into the contract. The housing association agrees to an annual contract.
If the association now fails to pay then this would still be a core term breach and covered under the common law rights of repudiation, termination and recovery but in addition common law would allow the window cleaner to reclaim an amount which would represent the future loss of income(a genuine pre-estimate of loss).
Failure to perform of the window cleaner, also would be covered in the same way under common law.
Say then the window cleaner being a sound business man said what I need is the ability to terminate this agreement if for instance the number of houses referred to me dropped to the extent that it was no longer profitable for me to continue. This would not be a repudiatory breach of contract as none of the core terms would have been compromised, so common law would not operate.
He introduces a new term in the agreement saying that if the number of referrals drops to a certain level he has the right to terminate the agreement and includes that in this event all outstanding charges due at the time of termination would be due and payable.
So now the contract has two means of termination one is contractual and one is through repudiation and the common law rights of the aggrieved party to recover damages.
I think we should pause here and recap the difference represented by these two different types.
“Termination” means the withdrawal of all rights under the agreement this is unchanged, what is different is the actions that can be taken because of the way the termination is made.
The contractual termination(made under a term of the agreement) is not a core breach, the termination was made by the trader so he would not be able invoke common law and sue for future losses, in the case of a repuiatory breach whilst the trader still terminates, it is due to the actions of the other party and termination would allow a claim.
Looking at it another way by invoking a term of the contract the trader has affirmed that the agreement still exists so he can not claim it has been repudiated.
[I disagree, on termination whether brought about under a contractual termination clause or a common law right the contract ceases to exist unless it contains specific terms to allow it to continue]
Before applying these definitions to consumer agreements I would like to make a point. There has been much talk on here of contract law taking over when the act does not apply. This is to my mind a basic misconception.
[I agree]
A consumer credit agree it still a contract. Contract law still applies to the agreement in the same way it always has.
[I agree]
It is up to the creditor to say what terms appear on the agreement and the debtor to agree or not just as it always was.
All statute does is place parameters on those terms in the intent of protecting consumers.
This is important to understand as it is not for the statute to initiate actions under the contract.
[I agree]
The act may require the creditor to take certain actions, provide copies , default notices, bit these are requirements of statute not of the contract.
[I agree]
So when someone says,” where does it say in the act that you can do such a thing ?” , the answer is, “it doesn’t” the act does not work like that.
[Not entirely correct - the Act does give consumers some rights to do things - for example return hire purchase goods, but it is quite specific]
The question should be,” where is the statute that limits the creditor ,s contractual right to do a thing?”
[In the context of DN I agree]
All this may seem to be off the original topic but I think when it comes to discussing default notices the connection will become clearer
Regulated agreements
In the knowledge that a regulated agreement is no different in essence from any other agreement we can apply the above definitions.
[I agree]
Termination under contract
This is usually a section contained in the contract which states the creditor may terminate at any time and on termination all sums due under the agreement become payable.
[I agree - but the terms can be quite specific - ie all sums only become due immediately on a breach]
The common reaction to this is, ”They cant do that can they” well has we have previously established they can, the reason is that there is nothing in the statute that says they cannot.
[I agree, but this depends on the individual facts and contractual terms]
The fact is that if there is a term in the contract that says the creditor can terminate at any time and on that termination the amount under the contract becomes due and payable it is perfectly within the creditors rights for him to put it there..
[I agree]
The banks would say that they would also have aright to recover under a demand via the court. ,
They say that the only reason they do not is because they are required by the lending code to behave sympathetically with the customer.
Personally I think the present Legislation contained within the CCA 2006 would make it very difficult for them to do so.
The liabilities under the contract are still there and common law would still expect them to be replayed In the manor originally required by the contract.
However having said that the agreement has been terminated, on a consumer credit agreement there is no real difference between a contractual termination and a termination under common law, because there are no issues of damages just recovery of liabilities currently under the contract.
Termination on breach of contract
The other cause for termination is breach by the debtor of one of the core terms of the agreement, the repayment schedule.
The act of not repaying the loan would be a repudiatory breach of the agreement and actionable under common law.
[This depends on the contractual terms making prompt payment a condition of the contract]
If it where not for the act this repudiation would be accepted, the agreement discharged and procedures commenced to recover the liabilities due under the contract.
[Assuming that prompt payment is a condition then yes]
However as part of its function of consumer protection the act ensures that we have a chance to remedy before the agreement is discharged. (section 87)
[I agree]
In this respect the default notice could be considered as the acceptance of the repudiation.
[I disagree, a DN is part of a statutory procedure to allow a creditor to progress to use his common law or contractual remedies listed in section 87(1)]
As a consequence of this analysis it is plain that the associated termination /discharge of the agreement cannot take place unless the repudiation is confirmed (a correctly executed default is issued)therefore there can be no termination.
[I disagree, the difference is the diffence between 'not entitled' and 'prohibited'. If section 87(1) was worded as 'the creditor shall not' then a section 87(1) action is forbidden.]
This conclusion is further compounded by the wording of section 87
(1) Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a “default
notice”) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any
breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement
Notice it says “breach of an agreement” not, “ breach of a term of the agreement”
Also it says,” can be come entitled to “ this means that if there is no breach no repudiation there is no entitlement to terminate under this statute.
[I disagree, the statutory effect is that there is no entitlement to take the section 87(1) actions under the agreement (Which is how goode expresses thing in his commentary on section 87/88].
So the issue of whether a termination issued after a incorrectly executed notice is unlawful is solved because the contract cannot be terminated in that instance.
[So the question remains under this interpretation why did the CoA decide Woodchester v Swayne in the way it did. If the agreement continued and there is no specific bar to issuing a new default notice why did Woodchester not issue a new one in the correct amount.
My view is that they could not because they had already terminated the agreement.
But I am open to persuasion that there is another intepretation, but I have not heard it yet.]
[Snip - I have to rush so I will comment on the rest of your post later]
Best regards
Peter
[Likewise - There are some real questions and I hope we can debate to isolate the genuine differences of opinion]
[snip]
Worked example:
A window cleaner contracts to do your windows at a fee that you pay in arrears of service of service.
This kind of an arrangement would not usually be documented but just humour me and lets say an agreement was drawn up.
The contract would say I the window cleaner will, etc etc for the weekly fee of £*** .
So far so good but what happens if the customer fails to pay .
This is a simple contract and common law would say that the breach by the customer was a repudiation of agreement and the window cleaner would be within his rights to accept that repudiation, terminate the contract and claim damages of the sum owed.
[I disagree, unless the agreement states that prompt payment is a condition of the contract (As for example most HP contracts do, but most credit cards do not) non payment of money is not repudiatory, it is a simple breach of contract which gives rise to a claim for damages - the contract endures]
Say now that the window cleaner had negotiated a contract with a housing association to clean all their windows, on a house by house costing and on the strength of this contract had invested in building his business to the degree where he could fulfil his obligations under the contract.
Since it would be some time until he could recoup his investment he would want to ensure the continued custom of the housing association so he includes a time element into the contract. The housing association agrees to an annual contract.
If the association now fails to pay then this would still be a core term breach and covered under the common law rights of repudiation, termination and recovery but in addition common law would allow the window cleaner to reclaim an amount which would represent the future loss of income(a genuine pre-estimate of loss).
Failure to perform of the window cleaner, also would be covered in the same way under common law.
Say then the window cleaner being a sound business man said what I need is the ability to terminate this agreement if for instance the number of houses referred to me dropped to the extent that it was no longer profitable for me to continue. This would not be a repudiatory breach of contract as none of the core terms would have been compromised, so common law would not operate.
He introduces a new term in the agreement saying that if the number of referrals drops to a certain level he has the right to terminate the agreement and includes that in this event all outstanding charges due at the time of termination would be due and payable.
So now the contract has two means of termination one is contractual and one is through repudiation and the common law rights of the aggrieved party to recover damages.
I think we should pause here and recap the difference represented by these two different types.
“Termination” means the withdrawal of all rights under the agreement this is unchanged, what is different is the actions that can be taken because of the way the termination is made.
The contractual termination(made under a term of the agreement) is not a core breach, the termination was made by the trader so he would not be able invoke common law and sue for future losses, in the case of a repuiatory breach whilst the trader still terminates, it is due to the actions of the other party and termination would allow a claim.
Looking at it another way by invoking a term of the contract the trader has affirmed that the agreement still exists so he can not claim it has been repudiated.
[I disagree, on termination whether brought about under a contractual termination clause or a common law right the contract ceases to exist unless it contains specific terms to allow it to continue]
Before applying these definitions to consumer agreements I would like to make a point. There has been much talk on here of contract law taking over when the act does not apply. This is to my mind a basic misconception.
[I agree]
A consumer credit agree it still a contract. Contract law still applies to the agreement in the same way it always has.
[I agree]
It is up to the creditor to say what terms appear on the agreement and the debtor to agree or not just as it always was.
All statute does is place parameters on those terms in the intent of protecting consumers.
This is important to understand as it is not for the statute to initiate actions under the contract.
[I agree]
The act may require the creditor to take certain actions, provide copies , default notices, bit these are requirements of statute not of the contract.
[I agree]
So when someone says,” where does it say in the act that you can do such a thing ?” , the answer is, “it doesn’t” the act does not work like that.
[Not entirely correct - the Act does give consumers some rights to do things - for example return hire purchase goods, but it is quite specific]
The question should be,” where is the statute that limits the creditor ,s contractual right to do a thing?”
[In the context of DN I agree]
All this may seem to be off the original topic but I think when it comes to discussing default notices the connection will become clearer
Regulated agreements
In the knowledge that a regulated agreement is no different in essence from any other agreement we can apply the above definitions.
[I agree]
Termination under contract
This is usually a section contained in the contract which states the creditor may terminate at any time and on termination all sums due under the agreement become payable.
[I agree - but the terms can be quite specific - ie all sums only become due immediately on a breach]
The common reaction to this is, ”They cant do that can they” well has we have previously established they can, the reason is that there is nothing in the statute that says they cannot.
[I agree, but this depends on the individual facts and contractual terms]
The fact is that if there is a term in the contract that says the creditor can terminate at any time and on that termination the amount under the contract becomes due and payable it is perfectly within the creditors rights for him to put it there..
[I agree]
The banks would say that they would also have aright to recover under a demand via the court. ,
They say that the only reason they do not is because they are required by the lending code to behave sympathetically with the customer.
Personally I think the present Legislation contained within the CCA 2006 would make it very difficult for them to do so.
The liabilities under the contract are still there and common law would still expect them to be replayed In the manor originally required by the contract.
However having said that the agreement has been terminated, on a consumer credit agreement there is no real difference between a contractual termination and a termination under common law, because there are no issues of damages just recovery of liabilities currently under the contract.
Termination on breach of contract
The other cause for termination is breach by the debtor of one of the core terms of the agreement, the repayment schedule.
The act of not repaying the loan would be a repudiatory breach of the agreement and actionable under common law.
[This depends on the contractual terms making prompt payment a condition of the contract]
If it where not for the act this repudiation would be accepted, the agreement discharged and procedures commenced to recover the liabilities due under the contract.
[Assuming that prompt payment is a condition then yes]
However as part of its function of consumer protection the act ensures that we have a chance to remedy before the agreement is discharged. (section 87)
[I agree]
In this respect the default notice could be considered as the acceptance of the repudiation.
[I disagree, a DN is part of a statutory procedure to allow a creditor to progress to use his common law or contractual remedies listed in section 87(1)]
As a consequence of this analysis it is plain that the associated termination /discharge of the agreement cannot take place unless the repudiation is confirmed (a correctly executed default is issued)therefore there can be no termination.
[I disagree, the difference is the diffence between 'not entitled' and 'prohibited'. If section 87(1) was worded as 'the creditor shall not' then a section 87(1) action is forbidden.]
This conclusion is further compounded by the wording of section 87
(1) Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a “default
notice”) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any
breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement
Notice it says “breach of an agreement” not, “ breach of a term of the agreement”
Also it says,” can be come entitled to “ this means that if there is no breach no repudiation there is no entitlement to terminate under this statute.
[I disagree, the statutory effect is that there is no entitlement to take the section 87(1) actions under the agreement (Which is how goode expresses thing in his commentary on section 87/88].
So the issue of whether a termination issued after a incorrectly executed notice is unlawful is solved because the contract cannot be terminated in that instance.
[So the question remains under this interpretation why did the CoA decide Woodchester v Swayne in the way it did. If the agreement continued and there is no specific bar to issuing a new default notice why did Woodchester not issue a new one in the correct amount.
My view is that they could not because they had already terminated the agreement.
But I am open to persuasion that there is another intepretation, but I have not heard it yet.]
[Snip - I have to rush so I will comment on the rest of your post later]
Best regards
Peter
[Likewise - There are some real questions and I hope we can debate to isolate the genuine differences of opinion]
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