Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

[middenmess]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hi

Me to

Peter

Succinct

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks Godzilla for your advice and I look forward to seeing what you come back with.

Hi

Me to

Peter

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks Godzilla for your advice and I look forward to seeing what you come back with.

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hello again jumper

I really do think that you ought to change your frame of mind set to your particular case, for I wholly believe that you do have a defence that is not only recognized in law, it[is] a defence that is complete in law and does undermine the claimant's cause of action in its entirety.

You were not and are not the contract breaker in these circumstances, the creditor himself has caused the damage to him and his unjust actions have swept the ground from underneath his feet and left no ground available for him to step forth upon and succeed with his claim.

I have posted on this subject (defective DN/repudiation/regulated Credit Agreement) on another forum and many cases/threads of this type, this particular subject will need to be determined on a case by case basis as there are going to be different circumstances/series of events involved with each case.

A one shoe size fits all simply will not suffice to ensure that justice is sufficiently served.

I have a case in Court today based on arguments put forward by me that are being used in the defence against a creditor who repudiated on the agreement/contract, I am very hopeful of a successful conclusion for the defendant and when they email me with the result, I shall post up the result (with their consent of course).

Peter, with respect, I wholly disagree with your argument, that is, a defective DN extinguishes the termination/ending of the agreement even if both parties to the said agreement have agreed that it is ended.

Anyway, jumper, you can defend this action, all you need do is state the facts (the series of events) of how you tried to make up for the missed payments, the creditor refused, the creditor had no grounds to end the agreement/contract as you clearly indicated that it was your intention to remain bound to the agreement/contract, the creditor, by his unjust actions clearly indicated that he did not.

I hope that helps you somewhat.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thank you peter for commenting so you believe that after all I have said and what has happened that I do not have grounds to defend.......put the faulty DN aside.

Even after I did my best? You think the court would not care? It is already proven that the creditor does/did not care as I would not be where I am today........but the court will look at every case individually will they not?

I know that either way I will get a CCJ and will only be ordered to pay what I can afford, that is why I can't understand why did HSBC not accept my reasonable offer from day one?

Would the court see that as a fair practice of a lender to treat their customers like that? Or as you say and as it is creditors do not care.

Also again I need to know am I entitled to request the charges back that HSBC applied to my account because that would be a counterclaim?

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Well after reading so many threads on here, CAG and other sites I think that all forums site team members should make an announemnet in big bold preferably red writing that anyone who has a DN and dose not comply with the cca then there is nothing they can do about.

Many people come to forums as a last and only hope left after exhausting many legal channels. I can see that many many people have been issued with Default Notices which contain many flaws and the advice they receive from many good people and some with not so much knowledge and carry on in the belief that theydo stand some chance of either getting out of the mess they are or some other kind of help.

I know that there are many who did not ever dream of being where they are today whether through their own mistake, negligenece or if life cut them a raw deal. The truth of the matter is that it is a cruel world now and it in the financial world its dog eat dog.

If people do not have a chance of getting anywhere even though they have defective DN'D then I think they should not be receiving advice from other people saying that they do and advising them to inform the creditors and accept unlawful recsission.

I have just read on a thread on CAG a cagger giving advice to someone on their loan, not credit card but a regulated loan that as they have received a faulty DN then it is game over for the lender. Now why would people be allowed to give out that kind of advice if it leads people up the garden path and lose their case.

Really I cannot understand this.

Well after reading so many threads on here, CAG and other sites I think that all forums site team members should make an announemnet in big bold preferably red writing that anyone who has a DN and dose not comply with the cca then there is nothing they can do about.

Many people come to forums as a last and only hope left after exhausting many legal channels. I can see that many many people have been issued with Default Notices which contain many flaws and the advice they receive from many good people and some with not so much knowledge and carry on in the belief that theydo stand some chance of either getting out of the mess they are or some other kind of help.

I know that there are many who did not ever dream of being where they are today whether through their own mistake, negligenece or if life cut them a raw deal. The truth of the matter is that it is a cruel world now and it in the financial world its dog eat dog.

If people do not have a chance of getting anywhere even though they have defective DN'D then I think they should not be receiving advice from other people saying that they do and advising them to inform the creditors and accept unlawful recsission.

I have just read on a thread on CAG a cagger giving advice to someone on their loan, not credit card but a regulated loan that as they have received a faulty DN then it is game over for the lender. Now why would people be allowed to give out that kind of advice if it leads people up the garden path and lose their case.

Really I cannot understand this.

HI
I know I said I would not comment further but I think that this is a different matter.
You are quite correct in your analysis , people should not be advising a course of action which is at best unproven and at worst suicidal.
There is nothing wrong with having idea in fact that is what these forums are for , the idea should be debated and analysed before any one tries it .
The act has been in operation for over 25 years now and we have to work within its current parameters. We have to look at the way things are done, it is fine theorising ,but if you try and challenge the conventional methods that courts use 1000 times every week you have to be dammed sure of your ground.
There is nothing new about using section 87 in order to gain advantage. In the late eighties and nineties there used to be adverts in the papers, usually the tabloids or the back pages of the exchange and Mart. “Clean up your credit record”, they would say “ for just £50 we will send you a kit where you can remove your CCJ,s and then apply for new credit.”
The kit consisted of a preformatted application to the court for a set aside on the grounds that the default notice was ineffective.
The idea was that once you received the acknowledgement from the court you could then send in to the registrar judgementss, they would notify the CRAs to remove your name from their lists, this was before the advent of computers of course.
This would then give you a window of a few weeks where your file would be clear( the time taken for the debtor to apply a new notice and re file), if you where lucky the creditor would not bother ,or you could contact him and negotiate a deal.
Mostly though the creditor would reissue the default and the court would issue summery judgement.
Now of course with the speed that these transactions can be accomplished this is not really workable..
The point is the idea of re issuing a default is not a new thing it is accepted practice, as I said earlier if you are going to challenge accepted practice you are going to have to show a good argument, this doesn’t even approximate one.
One final point totally unrelated. LA the creditor cancelling your right to draw credit on a running account and asking you to return your card does not mean that your account has been terminate, they can restrict of terminate your ability to draw down credit at any time.
Peter

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks Godzilla and I agree with you 100%.

I had no intention to break my agreement as I had always used my cc to help me when I needed it and I had always used it sensible and wisely. Never did I pay late or below the minimum amount.

I informed HSBC prior to when I was expecting to get in to financial difficulty and I kept in regular touch with my situation. I pleaded many times with them to come to an arrangement.

At that time I also had a claim against them for unfair charges in court, you know the one with the Banks v OFT, so maybe there was a little tension I don't know, maybe that is why they were so unreasonable to agree.

I do however feel severely prejudiced against and no matter how scary the thought of going to court and getting a CCJ against me is, I do feel that I did not do anything wrong or against the law.

When I complained to the FOS about HSBC, HSBC agreed that I could pay £1 a month..........but I could not agree because at that time HSBC did not send my SAR, and it was only after complaining about them to the ICO did they send it.

I could not agree to an installment at that time as I did not know the true amount owing to HSBC as I knew that there were approx £500 worth of charges that they had added.

Blimey! what a sag hey..........but I know that I have not done anything wrong in all of this at all. There is nothing that I did not do to co-operate. Now the threat of going to court is not good for my mental health or sanity, but then again should that be enough reason to be put off. I am not afraid of going to court or getting a CCJ as I know I would only be ordered to pay back what I could..........but even if this is the normal practice of lenders to treat their customers like this then we have no hope.

One thing I would like to ask is that this question should be put to HSBC :

AS A LENDER WHAT DID YOU DO TO HELP THE CUSTOMER WHEN THEY CONTACTED YOU WHEN THEY WERE IN FINANCIAL DIFFICULTY?

DID YOU SUPPORT, AGREE TO ANY SETTLEMENT, REDUCE THEIR PAYMENTS, WHAT IF ANYTHING AS A BANK AND LENDER DID YOU DO?

Well these questions are just going on in my mind at the mo,

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hello jumper

Have you filed a defence to this action as yet?

There is in your defence solid legal grounds to contend with against this claim by HSBC.

You missed a few payments, but at or during that time you were communicating with the creditor informing him of your financial difficulties and clearly you were making a serious effort to re-pay or bring the arrears up to date, the creditor refused your offers.

In these circumstances you gave a clear and unequivocal statement to the creditor and that was that you had no intention of breaking the agreement/contract, buy refusing to allow you to make lesser payments and bring the account up to date, the creditor's cause of action (terminating) was unjust, the DN [is] an issue/part of your defence, but what is central to your defence is the fact that it is the creditor who broke the agreement/contract, his actions [are] a fundamental breach of the contract, the creditor repudiated the agreement/contract at a time when it simply was unjust to do so.

Some or many will not agree with my statement/post on your case, nonetheless, you have a defence that is complete in law, the Brandon case is not a comparator for the circumstances involved to your case.

You are liable for the arrears only, the creditor's unjust actions have caused the loss to himself, you did not cause the loss.

I hope that will help you with your case, regardless of what anyone else thinks of the legal argument that has been posted by me.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Am I entitled to request back my charges from HSBC? this would bring the balance down.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks mm and I agree 100% with everything you say.

Looking at it logically the only difference I can see is a CCJ against me. If I make a proposal to HSBC of £1 a month and they refuse and still continue then what, OK make that £2 maybe even £3.

I have two other accounts with them and they know my financial situation.

Say they don't care about all the things you say, BUT the bottom line is that the court will not order e to pay more than I can afford would they? In the end the sum I am able to offer will be the same sum I offer and have been offering to HSBC and this offer will be made to the court.

I am not in anyway trying to get back at them, I am just trying to make a point that HSBC are mostly to blame for the situation I am in today. I have been going through my statements yesterday to try and build a trail of what went wrong and how and what I did to try and rectify and remedy this.........also I have been reading what HSBC have done to help support or even a bit of decent advice to rectify this matter with me before taking legal action.

So you see it is not me getting them back or any other reason. I know that if my case would to go in front of the judge they would not be impressed with how HSBC have handled this matter, fair enough I get a CCJ still the end result will be I will only have to pay what I can afford and I think it is vital that HSBC are aware that they cannot treat customers like this.

I know that I may not make a difference, but I believe that I have been severely prejudiced against by HSBC and this needs to be highlighted.

Maybe I am clutching at straws, but it only takes one match to start a forest fire. Not that I am intending to start one of course LOL!

Thanks your comments are most welcome, I am still deciding what the best way forward is and will continue to post with things.

[middenmess]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Ah,well it was worth checking.

As has already been posted the Bank couldn't give a monkey's as to whether you'd been the perfect customer for 50 years or whatever--all they're interested in is what is the position of your account today.

30 years ago we were all customers and were able to make an appointment to see our local branch manager if there was an issue with an account and at that meeting a solution was usually arrived at which was sensible and manageable.

That level of personal management has long been removed and we are all now just numbers to them and every problem account means a dip in their profits and a decrease in their fat cat bonuses so they treat all defaulters with total disdain irrespective of our circumstance.

If the banks still dealt sensibly with customers who, often through no direct fault of their own,have problems then they'd receive more money back into their coffers and we the customers would make every effort to repay our debts as quickly as possible but their choice, in many instances, is to treat us like verminous idiots so it should come as no surprise that we rail against this treatment.

You've intimated in your posts that you are not going to succumb easily and whilst you might have some points against their actions it would be wise to think long and hard before making your final decision as to how you will proceed.

Whether the Bank wins against you or you defeat them will not make one jot of difference to their business operation and the instant after the Judge's decision they will have forgotten all about you;on the other hand if you lose then you will be ruminating on it for ever even if the money side of it is not an issue for you.

Life is too short for all that grief so make a rational decision on this matter;if you decide to proceed everyone on here who is able to will be pleased to help with advice if they can and if you decide to settle then put 2 fingers up to the bank and move on and enjoy life.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Letting off steam is good and here is the ideal place:tinysmile_grin_t:--not being able to let off steam often exacerbates one's problems:tinysmile_cry_t:

Now--how about that question on the interest

Letting off steam is good and here is the ideal place:tinysmile_grin_t:--not being able to let off steam often exacerbates one's problems:tinysmile_cry_t:

Now--how about that question on the interest

Hi mm,

I have checked and no interest was charged for the first 9 mths so that is a no go but I am working out in as much detail the events that took place and the build up towards getting a DN.

I received a DN after missing three months installments. I kept HSBC informed of all my situation and if they had agreed then then I would not have been in this mess today.

Detriment to the consumer where the creditor did or did not do what he should have would be a perfect way of putting it.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

I will check as soon as I get home mm, as I am at my sis at the mo in between doing bits and bobs.

Thanks see you back later.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

Just going over Brandon again, the judge makes the distinction between "must" and "should", and points out (elsewhere) that s87 says "must" (provide 14 days form date of service).

The judge by no means dismisses the argument of insufficient time to remedy.

His clincher is in believing that no prejudice was suffered by Brandon because Amex did not take any action until after the 14 days. However, who is to know that Amex would have actually accepted payment of the arrears after the 14 days? They may have told Brandon he was too late.

Missed that one LA,

Will have a proper look at Brandon case and see what I come up with or NOT shall I say LOL!

[middenmess]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Letting off steam is good and here is the ideal place:tinysmile_grin_t:--not being able to let off steam often exacerbates one's problems:tinysmile_cry_t:

Now--how about that question on the interest

On the monthly statements that you received for the first 9 months after receiving your credit card, was there any interest charged on items that you purchased using the card, as the 'agreement' appears to say that for the first 9 months there would be no charge for interest?

Read more at: Legal Beagles Consumer Forum - Reply to Topic

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

On the monthly statements that you received for the first 9 months after receiving your credit card, was there any interest charged on items that you purchased using the card, as the 'agreement' appears to say that for the first 9 months there would be no charge for interest?


Re. your last post.

You must remember that these are open forums on which any one can post and that the answers you receive are just peoples opinions and thoughts and any advice that is offered must be considered as such.

There are considerable number of posters who offer really sound and sensible advice and others who have experience of the law and even a few who are qualified legal professionals to be found on various forums but even with these
the decision as to what you do with the advice offered has to be down to you.

Equally you will find large numbers of posters who on a good day can probably differentiate their arse from their elbows who spend their days reading the forums and threads detailing peoples difficulties and problems and then cut and pasting answers from a different thread about a similar scenario and thus gain a high post count but who are still idiots in real life.

Forums are great for garnering other people's thoughts on different issues but when money and your home are the issues then there is no substitute for good legal advice from a good professional in their own field.

Thanks mm,

Sorry for that I was just letting off some peeeeeed off steam, you know how it is. And I understand that if it wern't for places like these many of us would be sitting outside Tesco's in a box.

No offence to Sainsbury's LoL!!!!!!!!!

Take care and thanks for that wake up info