Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

[WendyB]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

How can an adjournment be classed as a success? it isn't over yet so surely we would need to know the final outcome before it can be deemed success or fail. Presumably the "success2 was using this important document to get the adjournment? What is this mysterious document, might be helpful to others if you told us what it was and what part of CPR you used?

I'm no expert in CCA but I am interested.

And a personal opinion - can we not start throwing insults around?

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hello again jumper

I stated that I would post up the result of a case that was in Court today that I had presented argument for the defendant to use against the claim brought by the creditor.

I have spoken with the defendant in the said case (a very good friend of mine) and he has given his consent to me to post here some of the details to his case.

Firstly, I just want to say, Peter Bard eat your heart out, or if you don't have one, eat those socks you found under the tree.

Tried and tested argument - result = successful. The case has been adjourned today (by agreement between the two parties).

Back in the summer this year, my very good friend contacted and asked for some help on his case as the claimant had made an application for Summary Judgment against his initial defence to the claimant's claim.

The hearing for SJ was just three (3) days away, I went through some of the documents to the case that my friend had sent me and in that bundle was a particular document that my friend had not realized the importance of.

I very quickly provided my friend with powerful legal argument based on this one particular document and also furnished him with the relevant CPR to use in order to submit the document in as evidence to substantiate his defence.

On the day of the hearing (SJ hearing) counsel for the claimant tried to go for a walk in the park and was having a nice easy day, my friend had served the said document to the claimant on the day I informed him of the importance of it, the claimant ignored the document and the argument that I sent along with it.

So just as the claimant was attempting to wrap the claim up, my friend spoke up and disclosed the said document in Court, counsel tried it on saying far too late and the Judge was about to agree when my friend mentioned the relevant CPR that permitted disclosure of this extremely important document, the claimant's said appl for SJ FAILED at that point and proceedings were adjourned until today.

My friend has counsel representing him now and his legal rep is specialized in consumer law issues and all the complexities thereof, counsel for the defence (my friend) is using the arguments put forward by me against the claim and is attempting to persuade the claimant that he should discontinue with his action and abandon it altogether. As I have said at the begining of this post, the matter was adjourned by agreement today and I shall post further on this case the moment it is concluded.

As far as Brandon case is concerened, the said case has changed absolutely nothing, in fact, the Brandon case may have only set a precedent that might apply to consumers/debtors who have accounts/loans with Amex.

Peter the only thing that you are absolutely correct on is - Yes I post on CAG under the name 'The Mould', you could not contend with me there, there is no difference here, Peter Bard in my opinion you are a scaremonger.

More on this case to follow soon, jumper sorry to hyjack, however, I do know how important and relevant this case is to your own case.

Kind Regards to all.

Godzilla

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks casper, I do have 3 other accounts so am not worried, well not yet that is LOL!!!!!!

Got to stop writing LOL, too much texting........ha ha!

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Why not open up another account and have your money paid into this? At least it guarantees they can't "steal" your own money while you try to resolve things with them. If you're worried about your credit rating and your ability to open a new bank account, several banks do what they call Basic current accounts (just google it). I have one with the co-op and they have been nothing short of superb, though I'm sure others would say different about them!

DLA + benefits = a fair bit of money!

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Well they could if they wanted to as there is hardly anything in there worth taking plus my benefits and DLA go in there which will leave me hardly anything to live on but I am sure that the court will see this as fair also.

Its OK sometimes I read the last few posts also. Thanks for the warning.

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

I have two other accounts with them and they know my financial situation.

Hi Jumper and apologies if I get this wrong as I have only read the last few posts in your thread. The statement above set alarm bells ringing in my head though - if your original dispute is about money owed to them, you do know they can legally take it from your other accounts? Would hate to see you lose all your money!

Hope having not read the thread I'm totally wrong, but thought this worth posting just in case.

David

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

I have been reading this thread on CAG and believe that the OP has a similar situation to mine and looks like they have made progress at court:

RBS Mint Loan - Court Action Started Dodgy DN issues

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hello Peter

No, I am not arguing 'unlawful termination'. Also, just to clarify my position, I simply stated that I wholly disagree with what you have stated on this particular subject, I have not invited you to argue with me, nor have I made any attempt to embroil or entangle you into any such argument.

All things are practically debatable (obvious statement, I know), but especially matters of law, why, even if a precedent has stood for 4 or 5 hundred years or more, that does not mean that it cannot be argued against, something new can and will always come along and change the ruling/decision.

Common law does so co-exist alongside acts of Parliament, the common law of contracts co-exists alongside the CCA 1974 (as amended) and as a matter of common justice, the Courts must look to that said common law and the principles thereof in circumstances such as the subject of this thread.

I of course am not introducing something new as far as the common law of contracts is concerened, on the contrary, I am relying on the remedies available to a non-breaching party to a contract under those said principles that have established what is just and what is not in these such circumstances.

Thank you, the defence rests.

Kind Regards to all (and that does include you Peter)

Godzilla

Hi
You do not agree but you are not inviting me to argue?
But you wish to argue against.
Common law and statute co exist OK
If these remedies had been applied they would be common law wouldn’t they?
Love your prose though they remind me of The Mould over the way. Being someone who’s grammar is less than perfect most of the time I do admire someone who can turn out a decent script.
Reminds me of Christmas morning when I was a kid .
Under the tree a beautifully wrapped present, golden ribbons, you tear it open just to find it is a pair of socks and a couple of grey underpants from your aunt Mary.
Peter

[WendyB]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

I meant the case which Godzilla mentioned in post 36, he said he had a case in court today.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Perhaps Jumper should wait and see what the outcome of that case is before he decides whether to defend, on what grounds etc?

Only you can decide which way forward to take Jumper, gather all the facts and arguments etc then take it from there. It may be just the principle of the thing but principles don't pay the bills - or the court costs should things not go your way.

Just my opinion.....

Thanks WendyB,

I am not sure how I would do that as HSBC have issued a claim and on what grounds or reason could I put this matter on hold until the Brandon case finishes.

I know one person who placed their case on hold due to the Heath case and when Heath lost so did this person.

If I do request HSBC put a hold until the Brandon case I would be admitting that my judgment more or less relies on the verdict that will come from his case but my case and the particulars of it have nothing to do with the Brandon case and I do not want to pin my hope on his appeal on 6 Dec 10.

Hope I have made sense?

[WendyB]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

oh yes, forgot to ask, Godzilla - how did it all go with Sainsburys? Don't think you ever updated us?

You also said in your post #36 that you have a case in Court today - in what capacity is it "yours" ?

regards

Wends

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Good advice GZ and I agree with all you say.

I suppose at the end of the day it will be up to the court to decide in whose favor things should go. The courts are not there to take sides and I think that people have a great fear of going to them, but they are there to listen to what has happened, why it happened and how things could have been resolved prior to court proceedings.

Who is/was the unreasonable party etc etc. For arguments sake if I do get a CCJ then it won't be the end of the world or will it? Have the laws changed about people who get a CCJ against and has been confirmed that life is over after a CCJ and this info has not been made public yet?

Sorry, but it does make me laugh at times when the things that people, lenders and just weirdo's in general can get away with whatever they can.

I think that the lenders will try and get away with whatever they can for as long as they can until there will be a time, when I don't know but until there is a stop made to it. Any chance of that happening in my lifetime is not foreseeable, maybe in the next generation.


Peter thank you for putting your comments forward, you give us a chance and a taste of what we have to come.

[WendyB]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hello again jumper



A one shoe size fits all simply will not suffice to ensure that justice is sufficiently served.

I have a case in Court today based on arguments put forward by me that are being used in the defence against a creditor who repudiated on the agreement/contract, I am very hopeful of a successful conclusion for the defendant and when they email me with the result, I shall post up the result (with their consent of course).




Godzilla

Perhaps Jumper should wait and see what the outcome of that case is before he decides whether to defend, on what grounds etc?

Only you can decide which way forward to take Jumper, gather all the facts and arguments etc then take it from there. It may be just the principle of the thing but principles don't pay the bills - or the court costs should things not go your way.

Just my opinion.....

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hi
Didnt want to get drawn into this argument again but just for clarity.

Yes i am saying that the faulty default extiguishes the right to termiante.
But even if i am wrong, you i believe are after an unlawuful termination in order to claim repudiation of contract. This is not possible as the creditor may termiate the greement at any time as is well established. If you accept this lawful termination you are in affect agreing that the agreement is lawfuly ended so the court will just assign the liabilities under the contract to the orriginal party as per rescission as remedy.

But as i say it would not get that far.

Peter

Hello Peter

No, I am not arguing 'unlawful termination'. Also, just to clarify my position, I simply stated that I wholly disagree with what you have stated on this particular subject, I have not invited you to argue with me, nor have I made any attempt to embroil or entangle you into any such argument.

All things are practically debatable (obvious statement, I know), but especially matters of law, why, even if a precedent has stood for 4 or 5 hundred years or more, that does not mean that it cannot be argued against, something new can and will always come along and change the ruling/decision.

Common law does so co-exist alongside acts of Parliament, the common law of contracts co-exists alongside the CCA 1974 (as amended) and as a matter of common justice, the Courts must look to that said common law and the principles thereof in circumstances such as the subject of this thread.

I of course am not introducing something new as far as the common law of contracts is concerened, on the contrary, I am relying on the remedies available to a non-breaching party to a contract under those said principles that have established what is just and what is not in these such circumstances.

Thank you, the defence rests.

Kind Regards to all (and that does include you Peter)

Godzilla

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hello again jumper

I really do think that you ought to change your frame of mind set to your particular case, for I wholly believe that you do have a defence that is not only recognized in law, it[is] a defence that is complete in law and does undermine the claimant's cause of action in its entirety.

You were not and are not the contract breaker in these circumstances, the creditor himself has caused the damage to him and his unjust actions have swept the ground from underneath his feet and left no ground available for him to step forth upon and succeed with his claim.

I have posted on this subject (defective DN/repudiation/regulated Credit Agreement) on another forum and many cases/threads of this type, this particular subject will need to be determined on a case by case basis as there are going to be different circumstances/series of events involved with each case.

A one shoe size fits all simply will not suffice to ensure that justice is sufficiently served.

I have a case in Court today based on arguments put forward by me that are being used in the defence against a creditor who repudiated on the agreement/contract, I am very hopeful of a successful conclusion for the defendant and when they email me with the result, I shall post up the result (with their consent of course).

Peter, with respect, I wholly disagree with your argument, that is, a defective DN extinguishes the termination/ending of the agreement even if both parties to the said agreement have agreed that it is ended.

Anyway, jumper, you can defend this action, all you need do is state the facts (the series of events) of how you tried to make up for the missed payments, the creditor refused, the creditor had no grounds to end the agreement/contract as you clearly indicated that it was your intention to remain bound to the agreement/contract, the creditor, by his unjust actions clearly indicated that he did not.

I hope that helps you somewhat.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

Hi
Didnt want to get drawn into this argument again but just for clarity.

Yes i am saying that the faulty default extiguishes the right to termiante.
But even if i am wrong, you i believe are after an unlawuful termination in order to claim repudiation of contract. This is not possible as the creditor may termiate the greement at any time as is well established. If you accept this lawful termination you are in affect agreing that the agreement is lawfuly ended so the court will just assign the liabilities under the contract to the orriginal party as per rescission as remedy.

But as i say it would not get that far.

Peter