Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Okay, absolutely your perogative, try let us know though what you decide to do and how things go for you. xx Best of luck with everything

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thank you all for your help and support.

I am very open minded and appreciate all the positive and negative views put forward, some for and some against, and really have learned a lot.........but I have decided to work this out on my own and do what I think is best.

As the saying goes, you made your bed now go lie in it, well that is what I am going to do, and when I am there I am going to dream about the day all this nightmare is over.

Thank you all once again.

ELVIS HAS LEFT THE BUILDING...........TIME TO LISTEN TO SOME BLUES NOW.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Whats the differences between your OH's debt and your's ?

(is it a lower/higher amount ? was his offer lower/higher ? Is his credit rating better/worse/same ? etc - was the process used the same (ie informed them in 08 of issues through cccs etc) Just see if theres a reason why yours wasnt accepted and his was.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

It sounds like you are just making an admission of the true amount owed, defending some late payment charges, offering to pay installments, and arguing that the claim shouldnt have been bought as you have offered them payments a number of times and they have declined, thus no costs, no ccj and no CO please.
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This I can live with, IF it went like this, but I am also arguing the way that HSBC have treated me.......OK might not get me anywhere, but then I will no for certain that there is no fair treatment for the debtor, which makes me laugh as it did not take my OH a fraction of effort that it has took me to settle this mess.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Naive question but what would be the likely result in payments ordered by the court if jumper had admitted the claim in the POC as opposed to the likely amount ordered to be paid by defending--assuming the judge finds that there is an amount to be paid?

Well by admitting and offering to pay, you are likely to get an installment order straight off of affordable amounts, which of course restricts the lender on getting a CO (as a CO shouldnt be awarded unless payments arent made under the original order) If defended then the order is more likely to be forthwith, and have to go to redetermination to installments, which opens the door to a CO.

Plus of course defending, depending how far it goes/how complex it becomes, can add more to the debt in the form of costs, which are payable forthwith (again opening to a CO), along with the stress, the extended time between claim and getting the CCJ registered on the credit file and thus longer to fall off, but thats only a matter of months so isn't really a huge consideration.

Defending, in this case,(on the processes and treatment not on technical DN/TN/CCA stuff) might result in the removal of court costs/sols costs and allow an arrangement to be made without a CCJ (poss under a consent order) and thus no CO, or further damage to the credit file. Or going on a strong UEA type defence might end up (if lost) with a mass of costs and a forthwith order and CO, redetermined to installments. I dont know what a win on a UEA would end up with, if no CCA then a hold on any enforcement until the true agreements located (ie its not iredeemable) and no idea what the DN arguments are meant to result in.

Just my thoughts anyway.

[middenmess]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

After the contract is terminated then the contratual payments don't exist its simply a negotiation to pay off the remaining debt after the contracts ended - thus the affordable payments. She offered, and was refused, and didn't make the payments (completely understandably), so it was bound to come to a court claim where the rate and terms of repayment of the debt can be set and secured.

Read more at: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN - Page 10 - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

Naive question but what would be the likely result in payments ordered by the court if jumper had admitted the claim in the POC as opposed to the likely amount ordered to be paid by defending--assuming the judge finds that there is an amount to be paid?

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

But why would anyone carry on making contractual payments when the lender has served a DN with its various threats and the contract is clearly ended?

I would imagine that most normal people would assume that a storm's coming and that they should prepare for a fight. As the contract is terminated by the bank, who in their right mind would assume that they should continue to make payments under that contract?

I just don't get it. Do the banks assume that their customers who get into difficulty should not only understand CCA to the level of solicitor at least, but should also have extra-sensory powers and be able see well into the future?

It really is unbelievable.

LA

After the contract is terminated then the contratual payments don't exist its simply a negotiation to pay off the remaining debt after the contracts ended - thus the affordable payments. She offered, and was refused, and didn't make the payments (completely understandably), so it was bound to come to a court claim where the rate and terms of repayment of the debt can be set and secured.

Even if people offer, get refused and make the payments anyway, they end up at court because some lenders are just arses, but the payments having been made puts the ball much more in their corner for making the same payments.

Yes it is wrong and annoying and frustrating because you have done everything you can to keep payments up to as high a level as you can, to get a CCJ any way. Other lenders will stick with affordable payments for years (outside the contract) till the debts paid off.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

lol @ guilty.

Not really sure what the harsh punishment is ? You'll be ordered to pay what you were trying to pay (ie an affordable amount) and possibly (but not necessarily especially if you can get an installment order straight off rather than a forthwith order redtermined to a installment order) have it backed up by a charging order in case you stop payments.

It protects you in a way too, HSBC would have to apply to the court if they wanted to increase your payments etc too.

I'm not questionning you, or your motives, I'm just trying to get the full picture that will be presented to the court to see what your options are.

It sounds like you are just making an admission of the true amount owed, defending some late payment charges, offering to pay installments, and arguing that the claim shouldnt have been bought as you have offered them payments a number of times and they have declined, thus no costs, no ccj and no CO please.

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

But why would anyone carry on making contractual payments when the lender has served a DN with its various threats and the contract is clearly ended?

I would imagine that most normal people would assume that a storm's coming and that they should prepare for a fight. As the contract is terminated by the bank, who in their right mind would assume that they should continue to make payments under that contract?

I just don't get it. Do the banks assume that their customers who get into difficulty should not only understand CCA to the level of solicitor at least, but should also have extra-sensory powers and be able see well into the future?

It really is unbelievable.

LA

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

I don't think that I would be going through so much stress if I did not have anything to prove what I am claiming is true, and yes I do have everything, letters, envelope the lot.

Yes I admit as I have all along that I breached the contract, there is no argument there, and OK so I did not make any more payments after stopping payments, but I did not stop communicating with them either.

If I had stopped paying and stopped communicating with them at the same time then fine, like Brandon I too should be strung up, but I can assure you that was not the case.

Also if I did not have any copies of communications from the day this started then my defence would be GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!

Which in a way I am, but such a harsh punishment, its like having your hand cut off for stealing as they do in some countries.

If the courts decide that HSBC were fair and I am in the wrong then I have to pay up, which is what I have been banging on about and trying to do with these DODO's, all along.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

So you never actually made any affordable payments after stopping the contractual payments in Jan 09.

Don;t know if you were still in contact with CCCS etc at that time, but the advice would most likely have been to make the offered payments regardless of their acceptance of the offer.

Do we have any copies of these letters (yours and theirs) surrounding the offers and refusals ?

(sorry if I sound really nosey am just trying to get the exact situation straight in my head (and others) )

Also any copies of the Sept 08 communications with HSBC ?

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Sept 2008 - informed HSBC getting in poop but kept up payments
Jan 2009 - Made last contractual payment
Feb 2009 - any payment ? NO
March 2009 - any payment ? NO
April 2009 - any payment ? NO
May 2009 - any payment ? DN received
June 2009 - any payment ? Defaulted
July 2009 - any payment ? NO
etc

Payments made until when ? and stopped why ?


Payments were made up until Jan 09,

From Feb 09 onwards even after receiving DN wrote to HSBC to accept financial situation and consider, sent 3 separate I & Forms to prove,

Received 5 letters of refusal. Last letter of refusal was in July 09.

There would have been no reason to have stopped payments, but getting repeatedly refused I did not know what else to do.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Rightio.

So.

Sept 2008 - informed HSBC getting in poop but kept up payments
Jan 2009 - Made last contractual payment (made two payments)
Feb 2009 - any payment ?
March 2009 - any payment ?
April 2009 - any payment ?
May 2009 - any payment ? DN received
June 2009 - any payment ? Defaulted
July 2009 - any payment ?
etc

Payments made until when ? and stopped why ?

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Oo and when did you stop making any payments ?

Any missed payments (under payments) between September 08 and Jan 09 ?

0 0 0 0 0 0 0

no!!!!!!!!!

In fact just checked paid two payments in Jan 09.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Oo and when did you stop making any payments ?

Any missed payments (under payments) between September 08 and Jan 09 ?