Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Jumper, know this: there is at least one other person following this thread who understands and shares your tremedous sense of humour! I really do hope things go well for you.
DS

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Sound xx

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thank you AME I get exactly what you mean,

Thanks

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

But you did default and didn't keep up the contractual payments, and from January 2009 you didnt pay anything. They sent a DN in April, and defaulted you in May 09.

You could argue you should be allowed to pay the arrears as due in April, because they had ignored your letters, and then be allowed to pay at the contractual rate (thus reopening the agreement) but I can't think of a basis for doing that as you couldnt afford to do it anyway (else you wouldnt have been offering them less anyway - unless things have improved now)

I was thinking more along the lines of, yes I know I owe this debt, and have tried my darndest to pay it, and kept you informed every step of the way, but despite my offers to pay at X,Y,Z amounts you have ignored or refused me, and now, over a year later, you have decided to take court action, completely uneceesarily as I have been trying to pay you but you have been obstructing me entirely against the lending code and so on and so forth. Therefore, I again, and without prejudice, offer to pay this debt off at £Xx a month, reviewable according to my circumstances 6 monthly, and propose you draw up a consent order to stay the current proceedings in court, freeze interest on the debt, and allow me to make the payments I have been trying to get you to accept since Jan 09. Otherwie we're going to get tied up in court with the additional costs of that, and you have the security of knowing that if I do miss any payments I have committed to, you have the option of lifting the stay and reinstating the court action to obtain additional, and as yet unnecessary, security against the debt.

If you get what I mean.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

That is something to think about, well say I was to write them this letter without prejudice then I believe that I should only be liable to pay the arrears on the date of the DN, regardless of it being faulty and including charges.

Because as they have been so unreasonable towards my reasonable request to offer
to pay and the actions they have committed prior to issuing me with a DN, and their actions after issuing this DN, then they should not be entitled to ask for the full balance.

Plus I still have a complaint which needs to be resolved and it has not and they have issued proceedings whilst I am still in dispute with them.

Offer to pay what is on the DN in full or we can go to court and let the court decide the best course of action. Despite having many things in my favor the tables could turn as I well aware of this fact.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Theres always a possibility; don't know till you try, if you do, as it's an offer, make sure you mark the letter Without Prejudice. Then it won't come back bite you on the bum later, not that I think it would, if anything would be in your favour, but if they refuse and you then decide to defend fully on whatever defectivenesses, they can't come back with 'oh but she offered to pay last week' etc, if you see what I mean (trying to cover all bases here)

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thank you AME, I will have a think of what you have advised especially about the consent order.

Do you think there is a possibility that HSBC will accept and not go to court?

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

The court will actually look at it quite sympathetically to your circumstances and see, as your defence will spell out, the efforts you have put in to resolve the matter. You'll get an installment order then they cant get a CO unless you miss payments, or if you get a forthwith order as the bank argue about length of time for payment, it will only be to obtain a charge order give them some security the installments you'll then be awarded.

The debt isnt massive though it might seem like it and we have people owing over £20k on £20 a month installments set through the courts.

If you go in all guns blazing its more likely to go against you as their documentation is in order. If you go in with the 'why is this happening all I'm trying to do is pay my debts and they won't let me, look I've done all this your honour, this shouldnt really be in court'etc then you are much more likely to get the result you want.

You will need an up to date income and expenditure sheet if you are going that route, or even if you are going to have a last ditch attempt to agree with HSBC on payments (you could write to them and ask to pay £xx a month and they stay the case in the interest of expense etc, spell out what you have done before, and offer a consent order that if you miss payments they can pick up the claim again)

Or fight, but the situation is not by any means unusual.

(I even had my payments accepted under a DMP with CCCS and was paying them every damn month, they still went to court and got it secured with a charging order, completely unecessarily, but they lost out as I got a huge collection charge (well over £1k) knocked off it by the judge so ended up with a smaller debt, over a shorter period, at the same rate I was paying through CCCS anyway)

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thank you for the advice AME, and I do find it hard if not impossible not to take this matter to heart, as anyone else would agree as it effects a big part of their life...........and maybe I am just a number to them, but to me I am not a number and there is only one of me and I have to do what is the best for me from now on.

You say that they just want to secure payment. When have I ever denied this too them?

It'll be an amount that I can afford, well if my initial offer was accepted from the start then there would be no reason to play this bloody cat and mouse game.

As for a charging order, then as far as I know these are not just dished out like confetti, a certain procedure has to be carried out prior to this.

If I do get a CCJ as I am sure that the court will look upon me as being very unreasonable right from the start and I was the one who breached the agreement first because I used the card for going to casino's and nightclubs.

When they will look at my statements and see what an extravagant and lavish spender I was then I am sure I will get a good hiding, in words that is.

Time to walk the plank me hearties and shiver me timbers the sharks I mean HSBC are really going to have fun when they get their teeth in me, LOL!

That is very good of you AME to offer to help me with my defence as I have been going loopy trying to get legal advice from a solicitor and barrister and no luck, so will take you up on that offer as soon as I get paperwork sorted.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

pmsl fair enough x

Don;t take what HSBC are doing to heart, you are just a number and they don't give two hoots. They just want to secure a payment, it'll be an amount you can afford, and they might have a charging order, which is meaningless unless you start missing payments again, and even then you can go to court for redetermination to get them lowered if your circumstances have worsened.

Worst you'll have is a CCJ on your file for six years, which isn't really Cake or Death, but somewhere in the middle.

I'm still with this option

It sounds like you are just making an admission of the true amount owed, defending some late payment charges, offering to pay installments, and arguing that the claim shouldnt have been bought as you have offered them payments a number of times and they have declined, thus no costs, no ccj and no CO please.

so if you want a hand with it just yell.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Jumper

Do you want to post up what you are going to enter as a defence, just so people can check if you have missed anything / can strengthen it etc ?

(I think your post means you are entering a defence but as I havent had enough caffiene yet this morning I'm not quite sure - and hopefully you don't still think I'm weird !)

Ame
xx

Thanks AME, but I think I already did, I am going to enter a PLEAD OF INSANITY, and hope I will get off lightly, I will explain to the judge that your honour I sincerely apologise, I do not know what was going through my head when I was making an attempt to take responsibility and pay my debt.

I can only apologise as I thought that what I was doing was within my rights and had I known that this matter would have got this far then I would have sold my house and anything else of valuable and paid off the claimant before.

Then I will give myself a slap around the head and say out loud three time

I MUST TAKE MY DEBTS SERIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!

I have not decided what will be doing yet, but will let you know when I do. I don't think your weird and even if you are what's wrong with that, who isn't these days LOL!!!!!
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My apologies, Jumper!

It was not my intention to stress you further, just pointing out what could happen re: costs.

IMHO, obtaining a short advice from Counsel or, a specialist legal firm, about your percentage prospects of winning could be of benefit.

It is very hard for an LIP nowadays, as we all know.

No probs AC,

Stress me as much as you like, can't see why not everyone else is especially HSBC. As long as you don't start writing to me then that is fine LOL!!!!!!!!!!

Relax no stress taken, and if it is then happy pills to the rescue.

P:S: I am not sure I am looking at this as a point of winning, if I do great if not then to the gallows it shall be. It is all about being unreasonable, and which party has been more.

Of course me as I did start this road to hell off,

[Angry Cat]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

My apologies, Jumper!

It was not my intention to stress you further, just pointing out what could happen re: costs.

IMHO, obtaining a short advice from Counsel or, a specialist legal firm, about your percentage prospects of winning could be of benefit.

It is very hard for an LIP nowadays, as we all know.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Jumper

Do you want to post up what you are going to enter as a defence, just so people can check if you have missed anything / can strengthen it etc ?

(I think your post means you are entering a defence but as I havent had enough caffiene yet this morning I'm not quite sure - and hopefully you don't still think I'm weird !)

Ame
xx

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Right I have been thinking very deep and long about this situation I am in and am posting my conclusion for everyone reading. Whether you take it as advice or a warning or just general information if you are in a similar position or ever have the misfortune to be in one.

In any legal case, you should not look at all the reasons why you you believe that you will win, but also all the reasons why you will lose.

Now in my situation up to the minute I am typing this message out has never been about winning or losing. To summarise it all up shortly, I had a credit card, and I used it, I got in a spot of bother,a genuine bother, and informed my creditor who I should say hoped more than expected to be treated fairly and understand and accept my request to pay a smaller sum in payments for a while.

I accept that the creditor is not obliged to agree and they are perfectly within their right.............but prior to making this request I did not have a dream or make this request up. I genuinely made the effort to research what a debtors options are when they get in financial difficulties. I contacted all 3 advice agencies and on the advice of the cccs who advised me that I should offer a token payment as I had to pay priority debts first. This I did and was also given a ref num by the cccs.

I made repeated offers, and I was refused repeatedly. There was never a time or moment that I did not reply or keep in touch when I received letters from my creditor. Never did I give the impression that I had no intention to pay, neither did I ignore any correspondence they sent me.

I do honestly believe that I did try my best, and if on the day HSBC do win and they do get costs whether they are £3k or £103k will just prove that no matter what you do or say when your in a situation like mine, you have no chance.

Maybe I will be allowed to have my story made public and as a warning to anyone that if you ever breach your agreement, this is what will happen to you, so take this as a warning, there is no need to get advice on this matter and there is no such thing as consumer protection or rights.

In my POC it states that the defendant had failed to make payment of the arrears of installments as required to the statutory default notice issued.

Now if this was the other way round and I was the claimant I would have written something like this as end of the day this is what it is/was all about, and how it has reached the steps of the court makes me think that I really need to a study and become a solicitor LOL!

My POC

The defendant [HSBC] have failed to accept numerous offers by the claimant to accept a smaller sum in return for a larger sum for a while. This matter has been ongoing for a long time and the claimant now requires that the defendant be ordered to accept the claimants offer.

LOL! Fat chance I know, worth a try hey.

BTW, if HSBC send their counsel they will want to prove that I have failed to make payment of the arrears of installments required, and make me to look like a debt avoider like the rankines and brandon.

They should also have said in their POC or can say on the day of the hearing

"Your Honour the defendant had contacted us prior to when she thought she would be expecting financial difficulty as she had to pay her priority debt first.

Prior to the defendant receiving a default notice she had made several offers to pay in installments, but at a lower sum that was required.

We did not accept these offers and wrote to the defendant several times that the offers made are refused and we would like a revised offer.

The defendant sent us three times financial statements but we did not believe this

We registered a Default on the Defendants Credit file a month before serving a Default Notice, only allowing 14 days to remedy

On the Defendants credit file we stated that there were 6 months of arrears and we registered the account closed with a figure much higher than it should have been

The defendant has never made an effort to make an arrangement to pay, and has ignored all correspondence to us

We sent the defendant a data request one year and 2 months later, as she did not sign her signature

After hearing all that the judge will turn around and say: Very well then, and look at me and Mrs xxxxxxxx by what the claimant has said and your actions have led me to come to the only conclusion I can make, but as we are living in a country where you do have a few rights I will give you a choice, would you like



CAKE OR DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and I will say oh please your honour DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just so I don't have to pay, because after all I AM A DEBT AVOIDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do apologise if my sense of humor has offended anyone, and I better check the side effects of the medicine I have been taking lately.


AHHHHHH! found it!!!!!WARNING, PLEASE READ CAREFULLY BEFORE TAKING THIS MEDICINE:

SIDE EFFECTS:

You may have feelings of anxiety, and have feelings of believing that if you are in debt to anyone then really you do not owe them anything, you may experience feelings of denial that you do realistically owe a debt to someone and believe that you do not, you will also have the urge not to correspond with any debtors chasing you believing that they are a figment of your imagination, you will believe that any warnings you receive from debtors are just an illusion and not real, you may have feelings of believing that you have consumer rights and there are things to protect you, you will have have feelings of hope that the courts will look kindly towards you when you believe that you have suffered by the hands of your creditors

WELL HONEY WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE, BECAUSE IT IS A DOG EAT DOG WORLD, AND IT IS A MATTER OF SURVIVAL. IF YOU THOUGHT THAT THE DARK AGES WERE BAD, WELL WAIT TILL THE COURTS HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE DONE.

My defence is prepared and I will tell the judge that my only excuse you honour is that I did not read the warning label on the pills I was taking and thought that all this was in my head. He will give me a CCJ, order me to pay what I can afford and on the order write:

THE DEFENDANT IS ORDERED TO STOP TAKING WHATEVER PILLS SHE IS, AS SHE REALLY NEEDS TO WAKE UP TO THE REAL WORLD.

Sorry guys, just feeling a bit weird after taking my pills this morning. You will be able to read from my posts when I have had them LOL, better make sure I don't take them at the hearing else I will be in even bigger trouble than I already am.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Just checked, and no costs apply to small claims. No idea why this has been mooted - jumper does not need additional anxiety at this stage.

Does jumper really need a barrister to defend this claim?

LA

Hi LA,

I think when we search for information on legal matters then there can be a lot of very different versions of advice from various different places.......and it is understandable that when you are sinking you want to hold on to anything you can.....but we have to dig and dig deep to find what is the correct advice and how to go about the correct way.

Don't worry about me getting additional anxiety as I have that covered, I'll just pop two more extra happy pills LOL!!!!!!

Only joking, Do I need a barrister, well I think I should go and get myself a black robe and one of those sheep's wig that they put on and become one myself, because after the amount of time I have spent researching the law, rights, making a claim. and all the other stuff, blimey, well you know the rest.
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The point i make is that , HSBC will send Counsel, and the instructions are likely to include a request for costs.

I can see the Claimant making submissions that costs should be paid, and im merely pointing this out, so that hopefully there will be prepared arguments for as to why they shouldnt be awarded.

Thanks pt, any rough idea approx how much......or what the max could be please?