Is it safe to contest the CCA?

[middenmess]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

As you've mentioned in another post on the forum Ame, isn't this just a technicality, and shouldn't common sense be used? i.e if the debtor isn't intending, for whatever reason, remedy it any way, does it matter whether 12, 14 or 42 days are on the DN? Obviously if the debtor does pay in full and gets further action because of incorrect DN, then fair enough.

Therefore..

should we lobby parliament to remove the requirement to issue a compliant default notice in the prescribed format from the CCA as it's merely a 'technicality?'

Better still repeal the CCA 1974 altogether as obtaining a judgement nowadays in a creditor's favour is also not much more than a 'technicality'

[Amethyst]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

Yep I agree, but we should make sure the banks do follow the law as it stands as it is there for a reason (ie to give debtors 14 days to find the money to rememdy a default situation) and I want to be able to confim the actuality to people rather than the theory (it is nice to be right), whilst telling them on the other hand its a technicality that really doesn't increase their chances of any outcome other than having to repay the debt. Getting all these technicalities ironed out in court, although depressing for the people trying to use the technicalities to sort their debts out, does make it easier for others to undertsand the law and the limitations of it, and means we have less people to try and help out of the mess they have got themselves into when they didnt really dispute the debt in the first place.

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

yeah you're right. My apologies to the Triads and cosa nostra for comparing you to Bank Executives.

[middenmess]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

yep, they are nothing more than grimey casino owners in a legit disguise

I think that is a slur on casino owners!!

At least you know you're going to lose money when you step through their doors

[WendyB]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

As you've mentioned in another post on the forum Ame, isn't this just a technicality, and shouldn't common sense be used? i.e if the debtor isn't intending, for whatever reason, remedy it any way, does it matter whether 12, 14 or 42 days are on the DN? Obviously if the debtor does pay in full and gets further action because of incorrect DN, then fair enough.

[Amethyst]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

lol. There is one case where the guy did state he hdnt received it until a specific date which meant it was posted within the 14 day period - can't remember which case it was, but as the bank didnt have evidence to the contrary his statement was accepted.

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

But hey,we're talking about the Bank's here, the very pillars of our society whose honesty and integrity is unchallengeable!

yep, they are nothing more than grimey casino owners in a legit disguise

[middenmess]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

they should have a certificate of posting or evidence I presume would be accepted by court, of their normal process for posting.


Read more at: Is it safe to contest the CCA? - Page 7 - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

AFAIK

Their only evidence would be to show a screenshot of when the template letter was printed.

No 'Proof Of Posting' can be obtained from the likes of UKMail etc.


But hey,we're talking about the Bank's here, the very pillars of our society whose honesty and integrity is unchallengeable!

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

they should have a certificate of posting or evidence .

oh come on...they don't send DNs recorded and either won't have the evidence or will make it up. either way no one will get that info out of them.

[Amethyst]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

DATED and POSTED are different...if its deemed served on the day posted it should be dated the date it was posted, they should have a certificate of posting or evidence I presume would be accepted by court, of their normal process for posting.

We know some companies set the DN up on one date and record that date in their systems, but the letter goes off to be auto printed and posted on a few days after and the date is automatically altered by the system so it is the date of posting.

So that would differ from a company who manually typed DN's then had them sitting in theeir out tray for a few days before posting - and if you statement of truthed that you didnt receive it till day 12, the court would have to presume posting on day 9 or 10 wouldnt they unless there was a certificate of posting.

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

It's fast approaching the point where any legitimate argument from a LIP will be countered or denied by the creditor's legal team with a combination of legalese blluhsit, bluff and bollcoks

we're all ready at that stage good buddy. and I agree totally with you.

[middenmess]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

Or can we tell peeps now that the 14 days is no argument (which'd be nice actually)

One of my D/N's was received 12 days after it was dated.

Should 2 days to rectify be considered acceptable?--or even possible?

IMO

It's patently obvious that the CCA does no favours to the creditor so their chosen way to deal with it is to circumvent or in some cases to ignore it altogether.

It's fast approaching the point where any legitimate argument from a LIP will be countered or denied by the creditor's legal team with a combination of legalese blluhsit, bluff and bollcoks and this combined with some strange interpretations of statutes by Judges will make any challenge to any demand pointless.

For those LIP's who decide to fight because they are still convinced that our courts are the place where justice is obtained are likely to lose given the above unless they are very conversant with relevant case laws and all of the CCA [and able to present and argue well in court] and might well then see their initial disputed debt of a few thousands turn into a debt of several tens of thousands of pounds when costs are factored in.

Signing up to credit governed by the CCA 1974 could possibly now be seen as entering into an unfair relationship with the lender as you are committing to be bound by the terms ordained by Parliament whilst the lender is not so bound it would seem.

Engaging legal representation is fast becoming mandatory to have a good chance of 'winning' but as this comes at a cost, it is not available to all and even 'no win,no fee' often means a commitment to expensive disbursements and it's probable that law firms will only agree to representation when the likelihood of winning is more probable than possible.

When the recently announced spending cuts and associated job losses --500,000 in the public sector for example--really begin to occur, many of us and especially those on lower incomes and benefits who have loans and credit cards that they will be no longer able to service ,the siht will really hit the fan repayment wise, and it's possible that the only growth industry in the next few years will be in the Debt recovery market unfortunately.

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

Thanks Mike. I think that's quite clear when it states:

1). Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.
2). To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-
(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;
(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.
"Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank

It has been said, that each case is decided on its own facts.

[MIKE770]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

2 days Royal mail, but 4 days (working days) by UKmail etc, as per Bickford Smith directive, as attached to give you an idea?

[Angry Cat]

Re: Is it safe to contest the CCA?

This is nuts!

Firstly, RBS/Tesco always sent their DN's out by contract mail;
the purported date of posting was, 25th September 2009 which was a Friday;
remedy required by 12th October 2009.

By s7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 a posted document is deemed to have been served at the time it would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

By case law 14 days in that section means 14 "clear days".

However, it would appear that the DN in question was only one day short?