Ruby Vs Aktiv Kapital (MBNA)

[Ruby]

I just received an interesting letter from Activ. I wrote to them asking them to produce my CCA (the usual template letter).

Although we purchased the right to recover the outstanding balance due under the agreement, as we are not the original creditor we do not hold the original documentation in this matter.

In order to obtain this, we will contact the original creditor, as we do wish to provide the information that you require, in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, in an effort to resolve this matter.

Whilst we endeavour to obtain documents within the prescribed time scales, due to the fact that we have to try to obtain documents from the original creditor we may be unable to do so, your account is on hold and has been removed from the collection process whilst we await the requested information.

Nice letter, however am I not right in thinking that when they purchased the debt from MBNA in 2000 they should have received the CCA from MBNA then.
Would I be right in believing that Aktiv Kapital have no legal right to collecting money from me without the CCA? Also It is almost a month since I sent my original letter requesting the CCA.

[Curlyben]

Re: Ruby Vs Aktiv Kapital (MBNA)

In a nutshell, if they want to collect on this debt THEY must prove it's valid and comply with your lawful request.
They don't actually need to have the agreement itself to enable them to make demands for payment, but they DO need it for legal action..
Until they do, you have NOWT further to say to them.
Keep that letter safe as it might be needed later..

[Ruby]

Re: Ruby Vs Aktiv Kapital (MBNA)

It turns out we have paid thousands of pounds in the past nine years to this company. If they don't need an agreement to collect payments and demand them, its a bit of a contradition? We also have not received a statement of account from them for years, and when asking for one recently nothing has arrived. The only statement received recently was only for payments made in the last twelve months. Surely after the cases at the end of November things have become more clear cut?

[TUTTSI]

Re: Ruby Vs Aktiv Kapital (MBNA)

Hiya Ruby

I am watching your thread with interest as Mr T has just started receiving phonecalls from them on the hour and every hour from 8am - 9pm (I call it nussance calls)with his MBNA and I expect the letters will follow. For now I told him to do nowt and then we may send one of CB's letters.

When I picked up the phone and they asked for him - I told them I don't know who he is. An hour latter someone called again - so I told them the same thing.

Tuttsi x

[Ruby]

Re: Ruby Vs Aktiv Kapital (MBNA)

Hi Tuttsi, have MBNA not learnt anything from these court cases? Surely somebody (OFT or FSA) should step in and tell these companies to obide by the rules set out in the 1974 CCA Act or else 'get lost'. When you start a Company one assumes you have done your ground work and research otherwise you go under. That goes not just for the finance industry but any industry.

[TUTTSI]

Re: Ruby Vs Aktiv Kapital (MBNA)

Hi Ruby

MBNA seem to get away with it, even cmplaining to TS is I understand a dead end. It just makes you wonder what is behind it?

Tuttsi

[Ruby]

Re: Ruby Vs Aktiv Kapital (MBNA)

God?

[Ruby]

Re: Ruby Vs Aktiv Kapital (MBNA)

Good to hear the good news on the CCA Agreements any results thread. I wish that like the bank charges, the results of the CCA court cases were better publicised so that we could all get a resolution, not just the few. I wonder what it really takes to get these companies off our backs when they are fully aware that they have not complied with the CCA. By all accounts a decent CMC does not exist so how do the lucky few do it? Maybe Londoneye could shed some light on the subject ?

[TUTTSI]

Re: Ruby Vs Aktiv Kapital (MBNA)

I was going to post a link for you to that thread - but you have already seen it. I believe that Londoneye works for a law firm that specialize in CCA claims.

It is certainly getting interesting I have to say especially MBNA.

[Ruby]

Re: Ruby Vs Aktiv Kapital (MBNA)

Maybe Londoneye could help us ....

I would guess that what these companies are doing at present is trying to be as agressive as possible in getting their money back before these cases become common knowledge at which point the s**t will hit the fan.

[Birdie]

Re: Ruby Vs Aktiv Kapital (MBNA)

In a nutshell, if they want to collect on this debt THEY must prove it's valid and comply with your lawful request.
They don't actually need to have the agreement itself to enable them to make demands for payment, but they DO need it for legal action..
Until they do, you have NOWT further to say to them.
Keep that letter safe as it might be needed later..

Hi

Question for CB - for legal action, do they have to have the original or can it just be a copy? Ie if one wanted to see the original copy, could we make the demand that it should be shown to us in the event of a court case against us?

Ta

The Bird

[Londoneye]

Re: Ruby Vs Aktiv Kapital (MBNA)

Hi all, our understanding is that there must be at least a copy of the original signed agreement to allow enforcement, there have been a number of successes based on this in the county courts. The test cases being heard in Manchester predominantly relate to this very issue I believe. Jan 7 is the date being bandied about for judgement, this will be a very important ruling as the banks appear to have agreed to abide by the courts' decision. The position of the banks here is that under s77/78 they are not obliged to provide a copy with signature, their interpretation of what constitutes a true copy. Certainly the CCA does indicate that this is the case in part. The argument would be how they lender could PROVE that this was the original agreement as signed by the client, our argument would be that under contract law there needs to be a no doubt about either parties acceptance of the contract, this would normally mean a signature in the case of a document providing an area to do so along with a declaration. For web applications, the bank would need to be able to prove that the acceptance & declaration could only be accessed by the applicant. Clear as mud?.......Thought so, OK, my best advice is wait for the verdicts coming out of Manchester.

Now, CMC's. Whilst much maligned, there are some organisations out there who are doing an ok job, the big problem has been their understanding of the situation, many felt that this type of claim would be similar to a PI but have found that the process and law is far more complex than expected, ultimately finding it impossible to finalise matters without a solicitor. The way in which the product was sold initially has created many problems for solicitors to take the cases on, because of "back end fees". The larger CMC's have got round this by either "buying" a law firm or instructing the law firm themselves meaning that the solicitors obligation is to them, not the client, very complex I'm sure you'll agree. The other way forward is to instruct a law firm directly (waits for the howls of derision to die down!). The best method to find someone is by googling the subject, then checking the Solicitors Regulation Authority website: www.sra.org.uk

MBNA are an extremely aggressive organisation, as befits their position as the number one credit card issuer on the planet, they market aggressively and collect in a similar manner, often outside the scope of the law, problem is giving them the occasional slap via the FOS or OFT doesn't even scratch the surface, its a bit like trying to fight a tiger with a toothpick. What most lawyers would like to do is get them into court more often, but unless they are 100% confident, they will normally settle out of court and off the record. ie, no publicity, no wins, no losses! Also, don't forget that every day they delay things brings them more money and less agreements to worry about, so they, and every other lender, will do everything possible to slow down the claims process.

Err. that's about it for now! Hope I've helped.

[Ruby]

Re: Ruby Vs Aktiv Kapital (MBNA)

Well another date to put in the diary (Jan 7). Not holding up much hope as courts always end up backing the big companies and not the man on the street. I bet MBNA and others like them will find a way of wriggling their way out of this one, after all they will invest in the most agressive lawyers to fight their corner.

[Ruby]

Re: Ruby Vs Aktiv Kapital (MBNA)

I've been lying low and trying to re-charge batteries over the festive period, hopefully like alot of us. HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone. I mentally made a note of the 7th January, tomorrow. Any feelings about this date from anyone?

Opps, ahead of myself just realised today is the 5th not the 6th!

[Ruby]

Re: Ruby Vs Aktiv Kapital (MBNA)

I have just received a letter from Aktiv Today.

In their dated 23rd December they confirmed they could not obtain the documentation we asked for and they just simply gave us a total sum of payments they had received from us. Unbeknown to them we have bank statements dating back to 2000. AK did not acknowledge the first 13 payments made in their letter.

Their letter today, (dreadful english!!!) included a copy of a form headed 'You are Approved I would like to Accept My MBNA Card'. It is merely a signed application form. It does have with it on another sheet of paper the terms and conditions. In this letter they added that the amount we owe them is over £10K!! We have repeatedly asked for a statement of account to no avail.


Any advise please?