CCA Help

[iron2025]

Hello everyone, hope you're well

I’ve had a DMP for a long time. All debts defaulted and are no longer on my credit files. My goal is to rid myself of the remaining accounts. I have health issues at the moment, so limited funds. I am not in a position to increase monthly payments. I am willing to settle at 25%, that's where I am at. If push came to shove I could go to 50-100% but it would leave me in financial difficulty. I would likely continue with DMP for the foreseeable future and circle back on settlement in future. Whether they’d even entertain 25%, I don’t know, but I haven’t proposed it yet anyway. One would think they'd be open minded to settlement given personal circumstances and time periods involved, but who knows. I've continued DMP payments while requesting CCAs (Intended to leave it 3 months, that's not up yet, with 1 response so far). My first step has been to request CCAs. Requests were acknowledged. I will keep all 3 accounts in this thread.

Debt 1
-06/2025 CCA request response received
Covering letter: Enclosed requested documents from original vendor, account enforceable.
Account summary: Name, DCA ref, current balance, date.
Original agreement: Newly created cover page with my name and redacted account number. A photocopy of original credit agreement (I can read my name, address, signature, and date. Everything else is almost impossible to read)
Default agreement: Newly created cover page with my name and redacted account number. A photocopy of what looks like an original cover page (name, address, monetary figure with no words referring to what it is, account number). Photocopy of what looks like part of the original credit agreement (looks like this refers to fees and interest rates, but its almost impossible to read).
Important information: Looks like they’ve printed an uptodate copy and just bundled it in.



Debt 2
-Not received yet

Debt 3
-Not received yet


21/06/2025: What I would like help, advice and guidance on (I’ll keep updating this section if the forum allows it)
Debt 1:
1) Ultimately want to establish if this is enforceable. What information does a compliant CCA need to contain and what other information or factors are important ?
2) Almost impossible to read due to photocopy quality. What implications does that have. Is there someone that could take a look and is there a fee for this ? What documents should be sent from those received (just the CCA ? Should I remove my name, signature, account number for privacy ?)
3) How should I respond to this, phrase my response, how detailed should I be. Should I just say not compliant, therefore not enforceable until you send me one that is. Wait for their response and go from there. Should I tell them why I think it is not compliant or not (can't even read it for one)
4) If it is compliant, I suppose that leaves me with DMP or settlement. So I'll act accordingly if so

[echat11]

Hi IRON2025

Welcome to LB

When were the accounts opened?

Debt 1

From what you say, the original agreement is 'unenforceable' because it's 'illegible'.
If they wanted to pursue the debt though the Courts they would need an agreement, default
notice and letter of assignment that are compliant. (in saying that, Courts do deviate).

1) Ultimately want to establish if this is enforceable. What information does a compliant CCA need to contain and what other information or factors are important ?

You've said it's 'illegible', so it's 'unenforceable', pointless providing a agreement you can't read.
An agreement needs to have all the 'prescribed terms' i.e. APR, etc.

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13/1.html

2) Almost impossible to read due to photocopy quality. What implications does that have. Is there someone that could take a look and is there a fee for this ? What documents should be sent from those received (just the CCA ? Should I remove my name, signature, account number for privacy ?)

Answered above.

3) How should I respond to this, phrase my response, how detailed should I be. Should I just say not compliant, therefore not enforceable until you send me one that is. Wait for their response and go from there. Should I tell them why I think it is not compliant or not (can't even read it for one)

Thank them for the information sent on XX/XX/XX.

State that the agreement doesn't comply with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, so your CCA request
is still outstanding and so the account is 'unenforceable'.

And that you look forward to hearing from them.

4) If it is compliant, I suppose that leaves me with DMP or settlement. So I'll act accordingly if so

As above.

[iron2025]

When were the accounts opened?

Debt 1

Thanks for the response and information.

-Debt 1: Opened 2007. They've included a cover page titled "credit agreement", it is a photocopy of original and I can read creditor name, my name, my address, my signature, and date. Everything else is unreadable. They've included a cover page titled "default agreement", it is a photocopy of original and I can read a cover letter including name, address, account number, and a monetary figure (no words stating what it is or means), everything else unreadable. The photocopied documents are so bad, I can't believe they've sent it and tried to claim the account is enforceable based on it. That's why I wanted to try and establish what details need to be legible for it to be enforceable, I was wondering whether there is enough to get me on it (and if they can, fair play, I'll deal with it accordingly). But it appears not. Yes certain information is readable (listed above), but a lot isnt, and when I say it isnt, its not even close, its just blur. Responded as suggested and awaiting their reply.
-Debt 2: Can't remember year of opening possibly similar/slightly later. CCA request acknowledged about 5-6 weeks ago, no response yet.
-Debt 3: Can't remember year of opening possibly similar/slightly later. CCA request acknowledged about 5-6 weeks ago, no response yet.

[echat11]

Thanks for the response and information.

-Debt 1: Opened 2007. They've included a cover page titled "credit agreement", it is a photocopy of original and I can read creditor name, my name, my address, my signature, and date. Everything else is unreadable. They've included a cover page titled "default agreement", it is a photocopy of original and I can read a cover letter including name, address, account number, and a monetary figure (no words stating what it is or means), everything else unreadable. The photocopied documents are so bad, I can't believe they've sent it and tried to claim the account is enforceable based on it. That's why I wanted to try and establish what details need to be legible for it to be enforceable, I was wondering whether there is enough to get me on it (and if they can, fair play, I'll deal with it accordingly). But it appears not. Yes certain information is readable (listed above), but a lot isnt, and when I say it isnt, its not even close, its just blur. Responded as suggested and awaiting their reply.
-Debt 2: Can't remember year of opening possibly similar/slightly later. CCA request acknowledged about 5-6 weeks ago, no response yet.
-Debt 3: Can't remember year of opening possibly similar/slightly later. CCA request acknowledged about 5-6 weeks ago, no response yet.

Just to add, if they 'know' it's 'unenforceable' because they can't comply with your request, then
they shouldn't try to mislead you into believing that they have complied with your request, you
could add that to the letter. Read the FCA link posted above.

[iron2025]

Debt 1: After telling the DCA the CCA was not compliant, they responded.

DCA
-Because I’m disputing the agreement, I’ll need to raise it with the original vendor.
-DCA think they’ve provided all required documents.
-Details noted relate to contact prior to the DCAs inception. Because of this they’re unable to discuss it.
-Make the DCA aware if I raise this the with original vendor and they’ll put the account on hold while an investigation is completed.

My questions are
-What are your thoughts ?
-How do you think I should respond and to who ?

There are loads of thoughts that have crossed my mind. Don’t necessarily feel compelled to address any of this, I’m just thinking aloud.

-Do DCAs not inherit the CCA when they acquire accounts. Their acknowledgement stated the original creditor couldn’t comply within 12 days, which suggests they had to ask for it. Why didn’t the DCA already have it. Why did the original creditor retain my data for so long (agreement from 2007, sold the account over a decade ago) and is that even legal. I can’t remember if another DCA had this account before the current DCA, I could find out if need be; (Do DCAs always go back to original creditor or who they acquired the account from).

-If the original creditor retained the CCA, what other data have they got, and can they produce a reconstituted CCA with it. Have they got a legible copy (did they just scuff the version they sent). Is this the only copy, only source of data, and has someone scuffed it before the current DCA acquired the account.

-Why is the DCA not facing up to this, why are they not chasing this up with the original creditor themselves. I think what they’ve provided is illegible, I’m inclined to stop payments (at some point) or agree a low settlement. If the DCA thinks what they’ve produced is legible, why don’t they stand on it, why are they not pushing repayment and court proceedings (might do that when I stop paying), but instead, they’re immediately directing me back to original creditor.

-My primitive thinking is, if a judge looks at this CCA, and goes through a checklist of required data, there are going to be parts missing due to photocopy quality. I’m convinced in that, for large parts the quality is awful. But could they win a case, without the CCA

[echat11]

Debt 1: After telling the DCA the CCA was not compliant, they responded.

DCA

-Because I’m disputing the agreement, I’ll need to raise it with the original vendor.
-DCA think they’ve provided all required documents.
-Details noted relate to contact prior to the DCAs inception. Because of this they’re unable to discuss it.
-Make the DCA aware if I raise this the with original vendor and they’ll put the account on hold while an investigation is completed.

You've raised a dispute with the current Creditor, there's no need to go to the original Creditor (that's providing the account was sold).

My questions are
-What are your thoughts ?
-How do you think I should respond and to who ?

You send it to the Creditor / DCA, state that the document doesn't comply with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, the document it is 'illegible'so your CCA request is still outstanding and so the account is 'unenforceable'.

There are loads of thoughts that have crossed my mind. Don’t necessarily feel compelled to address any of this, I’m just thinking aloud.

-Do DCAs not inherit the CCA when they acquire accounts.

The DCA is collecting the debt on behalf of the current Creditor.

Their acknowledgement stated the original creditor couldn’t comply within 12 days, which suggests they had to ask for it.

That is correct.

Why didn’t the DCA already have it. Why did the original creditor retain my data for so long (agreement from 2007, sold the account over a decade ago) and is that even legal.

Don't know. If the account. If the account has a 'debt', then you can understand why they would. But a lot of accounts were opened in a fashion that suited the company, but didn't comply with the CCA.

I can’t remember if another DCA had this account before the current DCA, I could find out if need be;
(Do DCAs always go back to original creditor or who they acquired the account from).

Yes

-If the original creditor retained the CCA, what other data have they got, and can they produce a reconstituted CCA with it. Have they got a legible copy (did they just scuff the version they sent). Is this the only copy, only source of data, and has someone scuffed it before the current DCA acquired the account.

As above. Can't answer the following: 'what other data have they got', 'Have they got a legible copy', 'Is this the only copy, only source of data, and has someone scuffed it before the current DCA acquired the account'.

-Why is the DCA not facing up to this, why are they not chasing this up with the original creditor themselves. I think what they’ve provided is illegible, I’m inclined to stop payments (at some point) or agree a low settlement. If the DCA thinks what they’ve produced is legible, why don’t they stand on it, why are they not pushing repayment and court proceedings (might do that when I stop paying), but instead, they’re immediately directing me back to original creditor.

Answered above.

-My primitive thinking is, if a judge looks at this CCA, and goes through a checklist of required data, there are going to be parts missing due to photocopy quality. I’m convinced in that, for large parts the quality is awful. But could they win a case, without the CCA

Ultimately it's up to the Judge / Court and have you got evidence to support your Defence, i.e. 'illegible' agreement etc.

[iron2025]

Thought I’d nip back with a quick update

Debt 1: Toing and froing over recent weeks. DCA insisted I contact the original creditor and ignored me when trying to clarify our positions. Original creditor provided nothing, then told me the account was sold and my queries should be directed there.

DCA think what they’ve sent makes the account enforceable. I disagree. Will they fold and concede the account is unenforceable. Will they stand by documents sent (how can they when most of it is unreadable. My basic understanding is; a compliant CCA needs various details, some of which are missing on what I've been sent due to being unreadable. What they included as the default agreement is completely unreadable also). Will they produce a legible and compliant copy as they’ve been asked for 3 months (how can they when they’ve sent the most legible copy they have and the original creditor has nothing). Sent a letter to DCA pressing them on it with my dispute. It will be interesting how this transpires

Debt 2: DCA letter stated CCA would arrive, and said nothing about being unenforceable. 3 months on heard nothing. Sent a letter pressing them on it. I find no response on this one a bit strange. In the past the original creditor behaved appallingly (won a case with the Financial Ombudsmen against them), then made them pay compensation after they violated it. I expected them to be on the ball, producing a compliant CCA or reconstituting one quickly, being very combative. But I’ve heard nothing for 3 months. Maybe its just them being slow, maybe its on the way, I wonder if the DCA will be difficult, I’ll see

Debt 3: Heard nothing for 3 months, sent a letter pressing them. Possibly before they read my most recent letter, the DCA sent a letter stating the original creditor could not comply with the CCA request and the account is unenforceable but collectable, will contact me in future if one turns up. Should I leave it a bit longer for a CCA to turn up or stop payments? Should I not pay for a few months and offer a low settlement offer to draw a line under it? (What percentage would you go for?) (Account is long gone from credit files due to default).

[echat11]

Thought I’d nip back with a quick update

Debt 1: Toing and froing over recent weeks. DCA insisted I contact the original creditor and ignored me when trying to clarify our positions. Original creditor provided nothing, then told me the account was sold and my queries should be directed there.

DCA think what they’ve sent makes the account enforceable. I disagree. Will they fold and concede the account is unenforceable. Will they stand by documents sent (how can they when most of it is unreadable. My basic understanding is; a compliant CCA needs various details, some of which are missing on what I've been sent due to being unreadable. What they included as the default agreement is completely unreadable also). Will they produce a legible and compliant copy as they’ve been asked for 3 months (how can they when they’ve sent the most legible copy they have and the original creditor has nothing). Sent a letter to DCA pressing them on it with my dispute. It will be interesting how this transpires

Debt 2: DCA letter stated CCA would arrive, and said nothing about being unenforceable. 3 months on heard nothing. Sent a letter pressing them on it. I find no response on this one a bit strange. In the past the original creditor behaved appallingly (won a case with the Financial Ombudsmen against them), then made them pay compensation after they violated it. I expected them to be on the ball, producing a compliant CCA or reconstituting one quickly, being very combative. But I’ve heard nothing for 3 months. Maybe its just them being slow, maybe its on the way, I wonder if the DCA will be difficult, I’ll see

Debt 3: Heard nothing for 3 months, sent a letter pressing them. Possibly before they read my most recent letter, the DCA sent a letter stating the original creditor could not comply with the CCA request and the account is unenforceable but collectable, will contact me in future if one turns up. Should I leave it a bit longer for a CCA to turn up or stop payments? Should I not pay for a few months and offer a low settlement offer to draw a line under it? (What percentage would you go for?) (Account is long gone from credit files due to default).

Debt 3: Is 'unenforceable' so you can stop payments. If you want to make an offer to settle the account, make sure it has Without Prejudice on it (then they can't use it in proceedings'.

Keep a copy, make sure you get Proof of Postage. They would have paid pennies for the account, so start with 5%, then max 9%.

https://nationaldebtline.org/get-inf...tlement-offer/

[iron2025]

Thanks for the continued responses ECHAT11

Another quick update


Debt 1
After disputing the credit and default agreements initially sent, the DCA sent new documents and a final response.

The default agreement – First one was entirely unreadable. Their second attempt is legible, looks like they found a new one to print off or reconstituted one.
The credit agreement – First one they sent had details missing, a lot of it was unreadable. They’ve come back with that same document, with significantly improved print clarity.

From a legal perspective I’m not sure how bad a document has to be before being considered not legible. It is still not comparable to what you would expect of a letter in this day and age; but my gut feeling is, the DCA might have done just enough to get it over the line. I’m inclined to reluctantly accept it. Will probably continue DMP or negotiate a settlement in future if possible.

Debt 2
After confirmation of CCA request, no response for 4 months. Ignored my letter chasing it up. Made a complaint. If they can’t provide a CCA surely they have to tell me the account is unenforceable? No? I want to take it to the Financial Ombudsmen to force them into providing a CCA or confirming unenforceable, good idea or no? Just stop payments instead? I think this DCA is chasing the debt on behalf of the original creditor, should I cut the DCA out of this and go direct to creditor or leave it as is?

Debt 3
Confirmed unenforceable. Plan to send a letter stating payments will stop, offer 5% full and final settlement if they want to take it. Then wait for it to become statue barred, unless a CCA appears at a later date.

[echat11]

Thanks for the continued responses ECHAT11

Another quick update


Debt 1
After disputing the credit and default agreements initially sent, the DCA sent new documents and a final response.

The default agreement – First one was entirely unreadable. Their second attempt is legible, looks like they found a new one to print off or reconstituted one.
The credit agreement – First one they sent had details missing, a lot of it was unreadable. They’ve come back with that same document, with significantly improved print clarity.

From a legal perspective I’m not sure how bad a document has to be before being considered not legible. It is still not comparable to what you would expect of a letter in this day and age; but my gut feeling is, the DCA might have done just enough to get it over the line. I’m inclined to reluctantly accept it. Will probably continue DMP or negotiate a settlement in future if possible.

Debt 2
After confirmation of CCA request, no response for 4 months. Ignored my letter chasing it up. Made a complaint. If they can’t provide a CCA surely they have to tell me the account is unenforceable? No? I want to take it to the Financial Ombudsmen to force them into providing a CCA or confirming unenforceable, good idea or no? Just stop payments instead? I think this DCA is chasing the debt on behalf of the original creditor, should I cut the DCA out of this and go direct to creditor or leave it as is?

Debt 3
Confirmed unenforceable. Plan to send a letter stating payments will stop, offer 5% full and final settlement if they want to take it. Then wait for it to become statue barred, unless a CCA appears at a later date.

a) Debt 1
After disputing the credit and default agreements initially sent, the DCA sent new documents and a final response.

The default agreement – First one was entirely unreadable. Their second attempt is legible, looks like they found a new one to print off or reconstituted one.
The credit agreement – First one they sent had details missing, a lot of it was unreadable. They’ve come back with that same document, with significantly improved print clarity.

From a legal perspective I’m not sure how bad a document has to be before being considered not legible. It is still not comparable to what you would expect of a letter in this day and age; but my gut feeling is, the DCA might have done just enough to get it over the line. I’m inclined to reluctantly accept it. Will probably continue DMP or negotiate a settlement in future if possible.

'Legible' means that you should be able to read it without spending time 'deciphering' the words.
If you are having to spend time on working out the words, then it's 'illegible'.

If they had a 'legible' copy, then why didn't they send it when initially 'requested'.

Has the document still got information missing?

What's missing?

Can you check both copies for reference number at the top, side and bottom?


b) Debt 2
After confirmation of CCA request, no response for 4 months. Ignored my letter chasing it up. Made a complaint. If they can’t provide a CCA surely they have to tell me the account is unenforceable? No? I want to take it to the Financial Ombudsmen to force them into providing a CCA or confirming unenforceable, good idea or no? Just stop payments instead? I think this DCA is chasing the debt on behalf of the original creditor, should I cut the DCA out of this and go direct to creditor or leave it as is?

I want to take it to the Financial Ombudsmen to force them into providing a CCA or confirming unenforceable, good idea or no? Just stop payments instead?

Don't take it to the FOS for the time being, long wait, they can be fickle etc (you may need a final response). Just stop payments (put the money aside).

You can send a chase letter.


c) Debt 3
Confirmed unenforceable. Plan to send a letter stating payments will stop, offer 5% full and final settlement if they want to take it. Then wait for it to become statue barred, unless a CCA appears at a later date.

Any offer letters you send must have 'Without Prejudice' written on them, so the Creditor can't use them in Court.

Make sure you get Proof of Postage.

https://nationaldebtline.org/get-inf...tlement-offer/

[iron2025]

Debt 1
-'Legible' means that you should be able to read it without spending time 'deciphering' the words. If you are having to spend time on working out the words, then it's 'illegible'.
That is good to clarify.

-If they had a 'legible' copy, then why didn't they send it when initially 'requested'
Exactly
When I requested a CCA, I assumed the DCA would send the most legible documents they had. What they sent was in my opinion illegible, so I disputed it. A part of me was expecting unenforceable or possibly court, particularly after the original creditor would not comply. But the DCA came back with improved documents. Where, when, how, I don’t know. I can only speculate. But their stance is, they’ve complied and provided a further copy to ensure there are no printing issues. So did they just scuff it the first time around. I’m wondering if they’ve now done just enough to tip legibility their way. I feel although the new copy isn’t great, I can read it, or am I being too generous. I'm not sure I'm as bullish towards court with the new version.

I’m wondering if there is anything I can learn from this. If I tried to force court action with the illegible version rather than disputing, would I have won. I would have submitted an illegible version and the DCA would have submitted their improved version, presumably. Maybe that’s just a bad idea I don’t know, but with hindsight maybe I could have handled it better.

-Has the document still got information missing? What's missing? Can you check both copies for reference number at the top, side and bottom?
That’s a good question. What is missing, if anything, now it is generally readable. What is wrong, if anything. If I can no longer argue legibility, can I argue compliance, is something missing, is something wrong. With regard to reference numbers, top, side bottom. The main page, has a barcode and number bottom and right side. The other page included within credit agreement and the default agreement, have no references, just V6# at the bottom.

Should I admit defeat on this one, continue with DMP and make a settlement offer.

I tried including some pictures, unsuccessfully. The full size does not upload, they're reduced somehow, so its impossible to compare documents. Opening them in another tab or downloading them doesn't work either, they're still reduced quality. I'll have a think, maybe they're not even required.

[echat11]

Debt 1
-'Legible' means that you should be able to read it without spending time 'deciphering' the words. If you are having to spend time on working out the words, then it's 'illegible'.
That is good to clarify.

-If they had a 'legible' copy, then why didn't they send it when initially 'requested'
Exactly
When I requested a CCA, I assumed the DCA would send the most legible documents they had. What they sent was in my opinion illegible, so I disputed it. A part of me was expecting unenforceable or possibly court, particularly after the original creditor would not comply. But the DCA came back with improved documents. Where, when, how, I don’t know. I can only speculate. But their stance is, they’ve complied and provided a further copy to ensure there are no printing issues. So did they just scuff it the first time around. I’m wondering if they’ve now done just enough to tip legibility their way. I feel although the new copy isn’t great, I can read it, or am I being too generous. I'm not sure I'm as bullish towards court with the new version.

I’m wondering if there is anything I can learn from this. If I tried to force court action with the illegible version rather than disputing, would I have won. I would have submitted an illegible version and the DCA would have submitted their improved version, presumably. Maybe that’s just a bad idea I don’t know, but with hindsight maybe I could have handled it better.

-Has the document still got information missing? What's missing? Can you check both copies for reference number at the top, side and bottom?
That’s a good question. What is missing, if anything, now it is generally readable. What is wrong, if anything. If I can no longer argue legibility, can I argue compliance, is something missing, is something wrong. With regard to reference numbers, top, side bottom. The main page, has a barcode and number bottom and right side. The other page included within credit agreement and the default agreement, have no references, just V6# at the bottom.

Should I admit defeat on this one, continue with DMP and make a settlement offer.

I tried including some pictures, unsuccessfully. The full size does not upload, they're reduced somehow, so its impossible to compare documents. Opening them in another tab or downloading them doesn't work either, they're still reduced quality. I'll have a think, maybe they're not even required.

Make sure personal details are removed.

https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...-and-documents

[iron2025]

Pictures are just not high enough quality after being uploaded for some reason. These CCA's are not great quality as is, so need full resolution to see details unfortunately